Come on Wintrolls, how about a link to a cheaper spec'd Dual Core laptop

[Mr Ed Of Course]

Ok, so now that you Wintrolls can compare specs since Apple is using
Intel chips, what laptops are cheaper than:

* 15.4-inch TFT display with 1440x900 resolution
* 1.67GHz Intel Core Duo processor with 2MB shared L2 Cache
* 667MHz frontside bus
* 512MB (single SO-DIMM) 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM (PC2-5300)
* 80GB 5400rpm Serial ATA hard drive
* Slot-load SuperDrive (DVD±RW/CD-RW)
* ATI Mobility Radeon X1600 with 128MB GDDR3 memory

And includes closest comparisons to:
* iLife
* FrontRow
* Remote
* iSight

$1,999.00

How much more is this Mac than a PC notebook with the same specs? And
of all of the PC notebooks with an Intel Core Duo, where does this one
rank?

Links please...

[||| Oxford |||]

Post by Mr Ed Of Course
Ok, so now that you Wintrolls can compare specs since Apple is using
* 15.4-inch TFT display with 1440x900 resolution
* 1.67GHz Intel Core Duo processor with 2MB shared L2 Cache
* 667MHz frontside bus
* 512MB (single SO-DIMM) 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM (PC2-5300)
* 80GB 5400rpm Serial ATA hard drive
* Slot-load SuperDrive (DVD±RW/CD-RW)
* ATI Mobility Radeon X1600 with 128MB GDDR3 memory
* iLife
* FrontRow
* Remote
* iSight
$1,999.00
How much more is this Mac than a PC notebook with the same specs? And
of all of the PC notebooks with an Intel Core Duo, where does this one
rank?
Links please...

yes, TODAY marks a new era in "Price Mac vs. PC Comparisons", and since
Apple will likely get first dibs on any new Intel Processors for the
foreseeable future, it's going to get awfully rough for them.

The playing field is now equal, but it's not... Apple gets the best
chips, traditional PC Vendors, have to wait.

[ZnU]

Post by ||| Oxford |||

Post by Mr Ed Of Course
Ok, so now that you Wintrolls can compare specs since Apple is using
* 15.4-inch TFT display with 1440x900 resolution
* 1.67GHz Intel Core Duo processor with 2MB shared L2 Cache
* 667MHz frontside bus
* 512MB (single SO-DIMM) 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM (PC2-5300)
* 80GB 5400rpm Serial ATA hard drive
* Slot-load SuperDrive (DVD±RW/CD-RW)
* ATI Mobility Radeon X1600 with 128MB GDDR3 memory
* iLife
* FrontRow
* Remote
* iSight
$1,999.00
How much more is this Mac than a PC notebook with the same specs? And
of all of the PC notebooks with an Intel Core Duo, where does this one
rank?
Links please...

yes, TODAY marks a new era in "Price Mac vs. PC Comparisons", and since
Apple will likely get first dibs on any new Intel Processors for the
foreseeable future, it's going to get awfully rough for them.
The playing field is now equal, but it's not... Apple gets the best
chips, traditional PC Vendors, have to wait.

It's not clear that Apple will get first access. And even if they do,
the Wintel vendors will still stick the systems up on their web sites
right away and not be particularly clear about when they're actually
shipping. This is fairly common practice. So, the Wintrolls can pretend
there's no difference.

I expect we'll still see comparisons a lot like the ones we've seen in
the past. The Wintrolls will compare Apple laptops to Wintel laptops
which have similar processor speeds, but are larger and heavier or have
shorter battery life or whatever, and pretend those things don't matter.

There will, of course, be Wintel laptops which do match the Apple
laptops, except, of course, on OS and software bundle. They'll be about
the same price.

[Snit]

Post by ||| Oxford |||

Post by Mr Ed Of Course
Ok, so now that you Wintrolls can compare specs since Apple is using
* 15.4-inch TFT display with 1440x900 resolution
* 1.67GHz Intel Core Duo processor with 2MB shared L2 Cache
* 667MHz frontside bus
* 512MB (single SO-DIMM) 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM (PC2-5300)
* 80GB 5400rpm Serial ATA hard drive
* Slot-load SuperDrive (DVD±RW/CD-RW)
* ATI Mobility Radeon X1600 with 128MB GDDR3 memory
* iLife
* FrontRow
* Remote
* iSight
$1,999.00
How much more is this Mac than a PC notebook with the same specs? And
of all of the PC notebooks with an Intel Core Duo, where does this one
rank?
Links please...

yes, TODAY marks a new era in "Price Mac vs. PC Comparisons", and since
Apple will likely get first dibs on any new Intel Processors for the
foreseeable future, it's going to get awfully rough for them.
The playing field is now equal, but it's not... Apple gets the best
chips, traditional PC Vendors, have to wait.

Not to mention Apple generally ships with better software. What do the
Windows folks have to compare to iLife?

[a***@gmail.com]

Post by Snit
Not to mention Apple generally ships with better software. What do the
Windows folks have to compare to iLife?

I will take the bait, currently at home I have a AMD64 Tower, iBook G4
and an iMac. The Macs are running 10.3.9 and iLife'05 and the AMD is
WinXPS2. I have found that there are great options in the Windows
world as alternative to iLife.

iTunes Mac = iTunes Win (free)
iPhoto = Picasa (free)
iMovie = Nero OEM 7 (free) or Nero Ultra 7 ($69)
iDVD = Nero OEM 7 (free)
Garage Band = No real alternative but I don't use it.

My wife and I have been using the PC more because we really like Picasa
and Nero Ultra 7. We have been making alot of home movies and have
found that for what ever reason Nero is easier for the entire work
flow; capturing, editing, buring to DVD than iMovie. Granted iMovie
has some feature I wish Nero had but nothing that is a deal killer.
Nero Ultra has the additional abilty of being able to encode MP4/H.264
video which is an ugrade to quicktime pro on my Macs.

As for Picasa my non-technical wife likes the layout and import
features of the program better than iPhoto. Her biggest complaint is
not being able to get iPhoto automatically import photos into a
"library" that is the date of WHEN THE PHOTO WAS TAKEN and not
downloaded.

Really it comes down to everyones preference but the iLife package is
not that much higher in my opinion. Ultimately I like having one of
each type of system avaliable as I don't know what I would do if I
didn't have Google Earth.

Brent

[Wayne Stuart]

Post by a***@gmail.com

Post by Snit
Not to mention Apple generally ships with better software. What do the
Windows folks have to compare to iLife?

I will take the bait, currently at home I have a AMD64 Tower, iBook G4
and an iMac. The Macs are running 10.3.9 and iLife'05 and the AMD is
WinXPS2. I have found that there are great options in the Windows
world as alternative to iLife.
iTunes Mac = iTunes Win (free)
iPhoto = Picasa (free)
iMovie = Nero OEM 7 (free) or Nero Ultra 7 ($69)
iDVD = Nero OEM 7 (free)
Garage Band = No real alternative but I don't use it.
My wife and I have been using the PC more because we really like Picasa
and Nero Ultra 7. We have been making alot of home movies and have
found that for what ever reason Nero is easier for the entire work
flow; capturing, editing, buring to DVD than iMovie. Granted iMovie
has some feature I wish Nero had but nothing that is a deal killer.
Nero Ultra has the additional abilty of being able to encode MP4/H.264
video which is an ugrade to quicktime pro on my Macs.
As for Picasa my non-technical wife likes the layout and import
features of the program better than iPhoto. Her biggest complaint is
not being able to get iPhoto automatically import photos into a
"library" that is the date of WHEN THE PHOTO WAS TAKEN and not
downloaded.

I really dislike iPhoto. I wish Google would do Picasa for the Mac, but
they probably won't because who would use it when they already have
iPhoto? Other than you and me that is.

Post by a***@gmail.com
Really it comes down to everyones preference but the iLife package is
not that much higher in my opinion. Ultimately I like having one of
each type of system avaliable as I don't know what I would do if I
didn't have Google Earth.

The beta of Google Earth for Mac is doing the rounds, and it runs pretty
good. Better than the Windows version some say.

[Snit]

Post by a***@gmail.com

Post by Snit
Not to mention Apple generally ships with better software. What do the
Windows folks have to compare to iLife?

I will take the bait, currently at home I have a AMD64 Tower, iBook G4
and an iMac. The Macs are running 10.3.9 and iLife'05 and the AMD is
WinXPS2. I have found that there are great options in the Windows
world as alternative to iLife.
iTunes Mac = iTunes Win (free)
iPhoto = Picasa (free)

I have used both. While Google generally puts out great stuff, Picassa is a
joke.

Post by a***@gmail.com
iMovie = Nero OEM 7 (free) or Nero Ultra 7 ($69)
iDVD = Nero OEM 7 (free)
Garage Band = No real alternative but I don't use it.

Nor, of course, do you have an integrated solution on Windows. The power of
iTunes is not the individual programs but the integration. For an
experienced user this matters *less*, but it still does matter.

Post by a***@gmail.com
My wife and I have been using the PC more because we really like Picasa
and Nero Ultra 7. We have been making alot of home movies and have
found that for what ever reason Nero is easier for the entire work
flow; capturing, editing, buring to DVD than iMovie.

I have no argument with Nero.

Post by a***@gmail.com
Granted iMovie has some feature I wish Nero had but nothing that is a deal
killer. Nero Ultra has the additional abilty of being able to encode MP4/H.264
video which is an ugrade to quicktime pro on my Macs.
As for Picasa my non-technical wife likes the layout and import
features of the program better than iPhoto. Her biggest complaint is
not being able to get iPhoto automatically import photos into a
"library" that is the date of WHEN THE PHOTO WAS TAKEN and not
downloaded.

Hmmm, I can see that. Still, unless Picassa has improved a great deal I am
simply not impressed with it. If you and your wife are, however, clearly
that is more important to you than my opinion. :)

Post by a***@gmail.com
Really it comes down to everyones preference but the iLife package is
not that much higher in my opinion. Ultimately I like having one of
each type of system avaliable as I don't know what I would do if I
didn't have Google Earth.

Well, as of today it works on Macs, too. :)

Do not get me wrong; there are things I prefer Windows for as well. In
general, though, for most people the software that ships with the Mac is
better than what you get on most Windows machines.
--
"I am not a number, I am a free year!" - '06






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[ed]

Post by Snit

Post by a***@gmail.com

Post by Snit
Not to mention Apple generally ships with better software. What do the
Windows folks have to compare to iLife?

I will take the bait, currently at home I have a AMD64 Tower, iBook G4
and an iMac. The Macs are running 10.3.9 and iLife'05 and the AMD is
WinXPS2. I have found that there are great options in the Windows
world as alternative to iLife.
iTunes Mac = iTunes Win (free)
iPhoto = Picasa (free)

I have used both. While Google generally puts out great stuff, Picassa is a
joke.

a joke in what sense? i'm yet another person that preferrs picassa
over iphoto...

<snip>

[Snit]

Post by ed

Post by Snit

Post by a***@gmail.com

Post by Snit
Not to mention Apple generally ships with better software. What do the
Windows folks have to compare to iLife?

I will take the bait, currently at home I have a AMD64 Tower, iBook G4
and an iMac. The Macs are running 10.3.9 and iLife'05 and the AMD is
WinXPS2. I have found that there are great options in the Windows
world as alternative to iLife.
iTunes Mac = iTunes Win (free)
iPhoto = Picasa (free)

I have used both. While Google generally puts out great stuff, Picassa is a
joke.

a joke in what sense? i'm yet another person that preferrs picassa
over iphoto...

Been a while since I played, but I made the mistake to trust Google and I
installed and set it up on a few machines for people (if it matters, not
paying customers). I found the interface to have too many modes and the
users were not able to find their photos and other images. People had a
hard time getting it to do anything. I do not believe Picassa has an easy
way to burn images to CDs and DVDs but I could be wrong about that.

I suspect for you and most in CSMA these things would be quickly overcome.
So it might not be a joke for the advanced users in here.
--
"I am not a number, I am a free year!" - '06





_________________________________________
Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server
More than 140,000 groups
Unlimited download
http://www.usenetzone.com to open account

[ed]

Post by Snit

Post by ed

Post by Snit

Post by a***@gmail.com

Post by Snit
Not to mention Apple generally ships with better software. What do the
Windows folks have to compare to iLife?

I will take the bait, currently at home I have a AMD64 Tower, iBook G4
and an iMac. The Macs are running 10.3.9 and iLife'05 and the AMD is
WinXPS2. I have found that there are great options in the Windows
world as alternative to iLife.
iTunes Mac = iTunes Win (free)
iPhoto = Picasa (free)

I have used both. While Google generally puts out great stuff, Picassa is a
joke.

a joke in what sense? i'm yet another person that preferrs picassa
over iphoto...

Been a while since I played, but I made the mistake to trust Google and I
installed and set it up on a few machines for people (if it matters, not
paying customers). I found the interface to have too many modes and the
users were not able to find their photos and other images. People had a
hard time getting it to do anything. I do not believe Picassa has an easy
way to burn images to CDs and DVDs but I could be wrong about that.
I suspect for you and most in CSMA these things would be quickly overcome.
So it might not be a joke for the advanced users in here.

ahh, so it doesn't sound like you're really used it yourself... but to
address your points one at a time and allow you to provide more details
(since many of your points are vague):
1- too many modes? picasa basically has 2 modes- view and edit, much
like iphoto. what other modes are you talking about?
2- not able to find your photos? the view mode fills the screen w/
them, with albums on the left. the always available search function is
MUCH better than iphoto's (not surprising given that google's
involved..). how are your users NOT finding their photos?
3- regarding burning cd's or dvd's- if you want to burn them for
someone else, click the big 'gift cd' button on top; it'll give you
options for whether you want to send pictures as a slideshow, or just
the raw image files (amongst other options). then click burn cd. if
you want to backup your images, select 'backup pictures'; the resulting
cd will auto-install on a new computer, and picassa will keep track of
which files you've backed up and which you haven't. doesn't get much
easier or better.

you're gonna have to provide a lot better details than what you have to
have your opinion on this taken seriously, given that you've pretty
much implied you've hardly used it.

[Snit]

Post by ed

Post by Snit

Post by ed

Post by Snit
I have used both. While Google generally puts out great stuff, Picassa is a
joke.

a joke in what sense? i'm yet another person that preferrs picassa
over iphoto...

Been a while since I played, but I made the mistake to trust Google and I
installed and set it up on a few machines for people (if it matters, not
paying customers). I found the interface to have too many modes and the
users were not able to find their photos and other images. People had a
hard time getting it to do anything. I do not believe Picassa has an easy
way to burn images to CDs and DVDs but I could be wrong about that.
I suspect for you and most in CSMA these things would be quickly overcome.
So it might not be a joke for the advanced users in here.

ahh, so it doesn't sound like you're really used it yourself...

Not much, no. So I admit my view of it could be wrong. I will say that for
relatively new users the interface does not seem to be very usable.

Post by ed
but to
address your points one at a time and allow you to provide more details
1- too many modes? picasa basically has 2 modes- view and edit, much
like iphoto. what other modes are you talking about?

Again, been a while, but from what I remember to bring in images it was a
pain and there was a separate and somewhat confusing (to new users) screen.

Post by ed
2- not able to find your photos? the view mode fills the screen w/
them, with albums on the left. the always available search function is
MUCH better than iphoto's (not surprising given that google's
involved..). how are your users NOT finding their photos?

They were not able to find them. They were not on the left side or in any
album... or maybe the albums were poorly organized, do not really recall. I
think it pulled in *all* images on the computer, even ones from other
installed programs and the like. Again, this is from memory from a while
back.

Post by ed
3- regarding burning cd's or dvd's- if you want to burn them for
someone else, click the big 'gift cd' button on top; it'll give you
options for whether you want to send pictures as a slideshow, or just
the raw image files (amongst other options). then click burn cd.

But what if you want such a CD for yourself? :) (yeah, I am kidding)

Post by ed
if you want to backup your images, select 'backup pictures'; the resulting cd
will auto-install on a new computer, and picassa will keep track of which
files you've backed up and which you haven't. doesn't get much easier or
better.

Aha, jogging memory: it did not work with the drive on one of the computers.
I do not know of any difficulties there on the others.

Post by ed
you're gonna have to provide a lot better details than what you have to
have your opinion on this taken seriously, given that you've pretty
much implied you've hardly used it.

Um, how seriously are you expecting someone to take an opinion from someone
who admits he has not used a program much? I am not trying to convince
anyone not to use it. Heck, even in my initial comments I make it clear
that my opinion is far less important that the persons I was talking to,
being that for his usage it is him opinion that counts!
--
"I am not a number, I am a free year!" - '06






_________________________________________
Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server
More than 140,000 groups
Unlimited download
http://www.usenetzone.com to open account

[ed]

Post by Snit

Post by ed

Post by Snit

Post by ed

Post by Snit
I have used both. While Google generally puts out great stuff, Picassa is a
joke.

a joke in what sense? i'm yet another person that preferrs picassa
over iphoto...

Been a while since I played, but I made the mistake to trust Google and I
installed and set it up on a few machines for people (if it matters, not
paying customers). I found the interface to have too many modes and the
users were not able to find their photos and other images. People had a
hard time getting it to do anything. I do not believe Picassa has an easy
way to burn images to CDs and DVDs but I could be wrong about that.
I suspect for you and most in CSMA these things would be quickly overcome.
So it might not be a joke for the advanced users in here.

ahh, so it doesn't sound like you're really used it yourself...

Not much, no. So I admit my view of it could be wrong.

obviously. ;D

Post by Snit
I will say that for
relatively new users the interface does not seem to be very usable.

Post by ed
but to
address your points one at a time and allow you to provide more details
1- too many modes? picasa basically has 2 modes- view and edit, much
like iphoto. what other modes are you talking about?

Again, been a while, but from what I remember to bring in images it was a
pain and there was a separate and somewhat confusing (to new users) screen.

bringing in images is super easy- much better than iphoto me thinks:
1- when you install picasa, it will, by default, scan your computer and
automatically add your images to libraries
2- picasa will automatically watch a bunch of folder for new images (i
forget which by default) that you add to your computer and add them
automatically to your libraries (you can specify which folders to watch
as well)
3- when you connect a camera, xp will ask what you want to do with it,
if you select picasa, it will bring up thumbnails for you to select the
images you want to import (or bring up picassa automatically if that's
what you specified). this is much better than the 'source' list that
pops up iphoto. what's much nicer about picasa is you can chose to
download just a subset of your photos, rather than the all or none
behavior in iphoto. you also have more (and better) options on how to
name files, where the files go, etc. but of course if you're a novice
you can just ignore it and everything's nice and happy...
4- there is also an 'import' button that allows you to manually tell it
to ping your camera, a cd, or any other connected device to import
from, similar to the source list in iphoto. any of these will bring up
the thumbnails.

how's it any easier in iphoto?

Post by Snit

Post by ed
2- not able to find your photos? the view mode fills the screen w/
them, with albums on the left. the always available search function is
MUCH better than iphoto's (not surprising given that google's
involved..). how are your users NOT finding their photos?

They were not able to find them. They were not on the left side or in any
album... or maybe the albums were poorly organized, do not really recall. I
think it pulled in *all* images on the computer, even ones from other
installed programs and the like. Again, this is from memory from a while
back.

are they sure the images were actually on their computer? ;D

Post by Snit

Post by ed
3- regarding burning cd's or dvd's- if you want to burn them for
someone else, click the big 'gift cd' button on top; it'll give you
options for whether you want to send pictures as a slideshow, or just
the raw image files (amongst other options). then click burn cd.

But what if you want such a CD for yourself? :) (yeah, I am kidding)

Post by ed
if you want to backup your images, select 'backup pictures'; the resulting cd
will auto-install on a new computer, and picassa will keep track of which
files you've backed up and which you haven't. doesn't get much easier or
better.

Aha, jogging memory: it did not work with the drive on one of the computers.
I do not know of any difficulties there on the others.

i'm sure it worked with many more dvd burners than ilife did until...
yesterday, eh? ;D

Post by Snit

Post by ed
you're gonna have to provide a lot better details than what you have to
have your opinion on this taken seriously, given that you've pretty
much implied you've hardly used it.

Um, how seriously are you expecting someone to take an opinion from someone
who admits he has not used a program much?

i guess the question then, is why did you bother saying it's a joke?
when you don't even have any specifics?

Post by Snit
I am not trying to convince
anyone not to use it. Heck, even in my initial comments I make it clear
that my opinion is far less important that the persons I was talking to,
being that for his usage it is him opinion that counts!

again, why comment at all then?

[Steve Mackay]

Post by Snit

Post by ed

Post by Snit

Post by a***@gmail.com

Post by Snit
Not to mention Apple generally ships with better software. What do the
Windows folks have to compare to iLife?

I will take the bait, currently at home I have a AMD64 Tower, iBook G4
and an iMac. The Macs are running 10.3.9 and iLife'05 and the AMD is
WinXPS2. I have found that there are great options in the Windows
world as alternative to iLife.
iTunes Mac = iTunes Win (free)
iPhoto = Picasa (free)

I have used both. While Google generally puts out great stuff, Picassa is a
joke.

a joke in what sense? i'm yet another person that preferrs picassa
over iphoto...

Been a while since I played, but I made the mistake to trust Google and I
installed and set it up on a few machines for people (if it matters, not
paying customers). I found the interface to have too many modes and the
users were not able to find their photos and other images. People had a
hard time getting it to do anything. I do not believe Picassa has an easy
way to burn images to CDs and DVDs but I could be wrong about that.

You are.
Up on the toolbar, click "gift CD"
Add the pics you want.
change the disc title
And it even has an option to include Picasa on the CD itself.
click burn CD.

Post by Snit
I suspect for you and most in CSMA these things would be quickly overcome.
So it might not be a joke for the advanced users in here.

iPhoto has a cleaner interface IMHO. But it wouldn't be a deal killer
for mac vs PC IMHO.

[Snit]

Post by Steve Mackay

Post by Snit

Post by ed

Post by Snit

Post by a***@gmail.com

Post by Snit
Not to mention Apple generally ships with better software. What do the
Windows folks have to compare to iLife?

I will take the bait, currently at home I have a AMD64 Tower, iBook G4
and an iMac. The Macs are running 10.3.9 and iLife'05 and the AMD is
WinXPS2. I have found that there are great options in the Windows
world as alternative to iLife.
iTunes Mac = iTunes Win (free)
iPhoto = Picasa (free)

I have used both. While Google generally puts out great stuff, Picassa is
a joke.

a joke in what sense? i'm yet another person that preferrs picassa
over iphoto...

Been a while since I played, but I made the mistake to trust Google and I
installed and set it up on a few machines for people (if it matters, not
paying customers). I found the interface to have too many modes and the
users were not able to find their photos and other images. People had a
hard time getting it to do anything. I do not believe Picassa has an easy
way to burn images to CDs and DVDs but I could be wrong about that.

You are.
Up on the toolbar, click "gift CD"
Add the pics you want.
change the disc title
And it even has an option to include Picasa on the CD itself.
click burn CD.

Thanks.

Post by Steve Mackay

Post by Snit
I suspect for you and most in CSMA these things would be quickly overcome.
So it might not be a joke for the advanced users in here.

iPhoto has a cleaner interface IMHO. But it wouldn't be a deal killer
for mac vs PC IMHO.

No argument here.
--
"I am not a number, I am a free year!" - '06






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More than 140,000 groups
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[Elizabeth]

Snit wrote:

<snip>

Post by Snit
Been a while since I played, but I made the mistake to trust Google

LMAO!!

<snip>

[a***@gmail.com]

<snip>

Post by Snit
Nor, of course, do you have an integrated solution on Windows. The power of
iTunes is not the individual programs but the integration. For an
experienced user this matters *less*, but it still does matter.

Agreed, but Nero 7 Ultra is a comprehensive integrated package. We
just choose not to use the photo package included with NU7 as we really
like Picasa. iLife is a good software package but there are good
alternatives in the Windows world.

<snip >

Post by Snit

Post by a***@gmail.com
As for Picasa my non-technical wife likes the layout and import
features of the program better than iPhoto. Her biggest complaint is
not being able to get iPhoto automatically import photos into a
"library" that is the date of WHEN THE PHOTO WAS TAKEN and not
downloaded.

Hmmm, I can see that. Still, unless Picassa has improved a great deal I am
simply not impressed with it. If you and your wife are, however, clearly
that is more important to you than my opinion. :)

<snip>

You didn't mention what version of Picasa you have used but when Google
first bought the program it was fairly rough. Google has since
developed and released two versions, the most current is Picasa2.
(Google number their developed versions 1 and 2 making the "orignal" 0)
The difference between Picasa2 and the original (pre-Google) is like
the changes between the orignial iLife and iLife05. If you have a Wind
box download Picasa2 and give it a shot you might be suprised.

Brent

[Snit]

Post by Steve Mackay
<snip>

Post by Snit
Nor, of course, do you have an integrated solution on Windows. The power of
iTunes is not the individual programs but the integration. For an
experienced user this matters *less*, but it still does matter.

Agreed, but Nero 7 Ultra is a comprehensive integrated package. We
just choose not to use the photo package included with NU7 as we really
like Picasa. iLife is a good software package but there are good
alternatives in the Windows world.

Nero 7 is likely the best "answer" to iLife the Windows world has. It has a
lot more features but is not quite as easy to use. Again, this comes from
limited experience with Nero and much more experience with iLife.

Post by Steve Mackay
<snip >

Post by Snit

Post by a***@gmail.com
As for Picasa my non-technical wife likes the layout and import
features of the program better than iPhoto. Her biggest complaint is
not being able to get iPhoto automatically import photos into a
"library" that is the date of WHEN THE PHOTO WAS TAKEN and not
downloaded.

Hmmm, I can see that. Still, unless Picassa has improved a great deal I am
simply not impressed with it. If you and your wife are, however, clearly
that is more important to you than my opinion. :)

<snip>
You didn't mention what version of Picasa you have used but when Google
first bought the program it was fairly rough. Google has since
developed and released two versions, the most current is Picasa2.
(Google number their developed versions 1 and 2 making the "orignal" 0)
The difference between Picasa2 and the original (pre-Google) is like
the changes between the orignial iLife and iLife05. If you have a Wind
box download Picasa2 and give it a shot you might be suprised.

Hmmmm, I know I used it after a big upgrade, but that may have been P1, not
P2. I shall try it again. Thanks for the suggestion.
--
"I am not a number, I am a free year!" - '06






_________________________________________
Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server
More than 140,000 groups
Unlimited download
http://www.usenetzone.com to open account

[Tim Smith]

Post by a***@gmail.com
Garage Band = No real alternative but I don't use it.

Cakewalk Music Creator.

[Martin Kess]

Because of course, Intel is going to cater to a little tiny company
like Apple instead of giants like HP and Dell. Riiiggghhhhtt...

You forget that Intel's the one who's going to be deciding the chip
release cycle, not Apple. Also, Intel has a very dangerous competitor
by the name of AMD who at the moment is destroying Intel in the dual
core market, so chances are we're all going to see the same chips.

[i***@mac.com]

Post by Martin Kess
Because of course, Intel is going to cater to a little tiny company
like Apple instead of giants like HP and Dell. Riiiggghhhhtt...

Tiny? Apple's #5 in the US, and will probably go to #3 this year:

Dell: ~30%
HP: 20%
Gateway: 6.4%
Lenovo & Apple: ~5%

Apple has shown it has the chops to integrate Intel's stuff before the
other OEMs, especially the domestic OEMs.

Plus Apple has a MONSTER share of the laptop market ... 20% IIRC.

And Apple is strong about designing product to best feature the hw's
capabilities.

Post by Martin Kess
You forget that Intel's the one who's going to be deciding the chip
release cycle, not Apple. Also, Intel has a very dangerous competitor
by the name of AMD who at the moment is destroying Intel in the dual
core market

LOL. With no major OEM support. Hobbyists putting together their toy
boxes with flash LED fans and dubious liquid cooling solutions are
insignificant.

Post by Martin Kess
so chances are we're all going to see the same chips.

Sure. Apple's not going to be getting anything any special to it. But
they're the only ones who actually give a shit about their product,
because they use what they sell every hour of every day.

[Martin Kess]

Notice how #1 + #2 = 50%? Quick, do some math. What's bigger? 50% or
almost not quite 5%?

http://theinq.net/?article=27886
http://news.com.com/AMD+surpassed+Intel+in+U.S.+retail+stores/2100-1006_3-5939522.html?tag=html.alert
http://www.amdboard.com/amd_market_share.html

Right....

And as for Apple's 20% notebook market share
http://www.neowin.net/index.php?act=view&id=31815
For some really small values of 20, right?


So basically, you're talking out of your ass?

[i***@mac.com]

Post by Martin Kess
Notice how #1 + #2 = 50%? Quick, do some math. What's bigger? 50% or
almost not quite 5%?

You didn't say "bigger", you said Apple was a "little tiny company"
that Intel wouldn't want to "cater" to. Apple's going to move ~5-6M
Yonahs and (I'd guess) *0* Celerons this year, so that's not an
insignificant chunk of business for INTC to move bleeding-edge product
to.

Post by Martin Kess
http://theinq.net/?article=27886
http://news.com.com/AMD+surpassed+Intel+in+U.S.+retail+stores/2100-1006_3-5939522.html?tag=html.alert
http://www.amdboard.com/amd_market_share.html
Right....

actually, I wish AMD well. They have good ideas, and are putting some
pressure on INTC.

Post by Martin Kess
And as for Apple's 20% notebook market share
http://www.neowin.net/index.php?act=view&id=31815
For some really small values of 20, right?
So basically, you're talking out of your ass?

partially; my assertion was:

"20% IIRC".

I was thinking of Apple's education laptop market share which, IIRC, is
~20%:

"Apple's share of the education laptop market has risen to 26.7% from
22.6% earlier this year, IDC says."

http://www.usatoday.com/printedition/money/20040823/3b_apple23.art.htm

[Martin Kess]

Post by i***@mac.com

Post by Martin Kess
Notice how #1 + #2 = 50%? Quick, do some math. What's bigger? 50% or
almost not quite 5%?

You didn't say "bigger", you said Apple was a "little tiny company"
that Intel wouldn't want to "cater" to. Apple's going to move ~5-6M
Yonahs and (I'd guess) *0* Celerons this year, so that's not an
insignificant chunk of business for INTC to move bleeding-edge product
to.

Tiny is a relative term. The Earth is tiny compared to the sun and
Apple is a tiny company compared to Dell and HP. 50% of the $250 dollar
market (that's $125 dollars), or almost 5% (that's $12.5 billion
dollars)? Your move.

That's not to say that they're going to neglect Apple, but don't expect
to see Apple specific chips any time soon or Apple telling Intel what
to do.

[i***@mac.com]

Post by Martin Kess

Post by i***@mac.com

Post by Martin Kess
Notice how #1 + #2 = 50%? Quick, do some math. What's bigger? 50% or
almost not quite 5%?

You didn't say "bigger", you said Apple was a "little tiny company"
that Intel wouldn't want to "cater" to. Apple's going to move ~5-6M
Yonahs and (I'd guess) *0* Celerons this year, so that's not an
insignificant chunk of business for INTC to move bleeding-edge product
to.

Tiny is a relative term. The Earth is tiny compared to the sun and
Apple is a tiny company compared to Dell and HP. 50% of the $250 dollar
market (that's $125 dollars), or almost 5% (that's $12.5 billion
dollars)? Your move.
That's not to say that they're going to neglect Apple, but don't expect
to see Apple specific chips any time soon or Apple telling Intel what
to do.

Apple is a longtime pioneer, and is the only Intel OEM not gated by
Microsoft. Which means they can roll out stuff better than anyone else.

[NashtOn]

Post by i***@mac.com

Post by Martin Kess
Notice how #1 + #2 = 50%? Quick, do some math. What's bigger? 50% or
almost not quite 5%?

You didn't say "bigger", you said Apple was a "little tiny company"
that Intel wouldn't want to "cater" to. Apple's going to move ~5-6M
Yonahs and (I'd guess) *0* Celerons this year, so that's not an
insignificant chunk of business for INTC to move bleeding-edge product
to.

Notice how immoutahere starts using acronyms when cornered to pretend he
has half a brain?

Nicolas

Post by i***@mac.com

Post by Martin Kess
http://theinq.net/?article=27886
http://news.com.com/AMD+surpassed+Intel+in+U.S.+retail+stores/2100-1006_3-5939522.html?tag=html.alert
http://www.amdboard.com/amd_market_share.html
Right....

actually, I wish AMD well. They have good ideas, and are putting some
pressure on INTC.

Post by Martin Kess
And as for Apple's 20% notebook market share
http://www.neowin.net/index.php?act=view&id=31815
For some really small values of 20, right?
So basically, you're talking out of your ass?

"20% IIRC".
I was thinking of Apple's education laptop market share which, IIRC, is
"Apple's share of the education laptop market has risen to 26.7% from
22.6% earlier this year, IDC says."
http://www.usatoday.com/printedition/money/20040823/3b_apple23.art.htm

[Dave Fritzinger]

Post by NashtOn

Post by i***@mac.com

Post by Martin Kess
Notice how #1 + #2 = 50%? Quick, do some math. What's bigger? 50% or
almost not quite 5%?

You didn't say "bigger", you said Apple was a "little tiny company"
that Intel wouldn't want to "cater" to. Apple's going to move ~5-6M
Yonahs and (I'd guess) *0* Celerons this year, so that's not an
insignificant chunk of business for INTC to move bleeding-edge product
to.

Notice how immoutahere starts using acronyms when cornered to pretend he
has half a brain?

Tell me, Nicky. Weren't you the one who always complained about ad hom
attacks when you were trolling in talk.origins? Now, having been shown
to be the fool in t.o, you return to spread ad homs in cmsa. Hypocrisy,
thy name is Naston...

[Dave Fritzinger]

Post by NashtOn

Post by i***@mac.com

Post by Martin Kess
Notice how #1 + #2 = 50%? Quick, do some math. What's bigger? 50% or
almost not quite 5%?

You didn't say "bigger", you said Apple was a "little tiny company"
that Intel wouldn't want to "cater" to. Apple's going to move ~5-6M
Yonahs and (I'd guess) *0* Celerons this year, so that's not an
insignificant chunk of business for INTC to move bleeding-edge product
to.

Notice how immoutahere starts using acronyms when cornered to pretend he
has half a brain?

Tell me, Nicky. Weren't you the one who always complained about ad hom
attacks when you were trolling in talk.origins? Now, having been shown
to be the fool in t.o, you return to spread ad homs in cmsa. Hypocrisy,
thy name is Nashton...

[MuahMan]

If I had a time machine I could go back to 1999 and comply with your
request.
--
Oh come *on*! There aren't any viruses for Windows - that's just another
Maccie
Sandman on Jan 9, 2006
"Mr Ed Of Course" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:***@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Ok, so now that you Wintrolls can compare specs since Apple is using
Intel chips, what laptops are cheaper than:

* 15.4-inch TFT display with 1440x900 resolution
* 1.67GHz Intel Core Duo processor with 2MB shared L2 Cache
* 667MHz frontside bus
* 512MB (single SO-DIMM) 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM (PC2-5300)
* 80GB 5400rpm Serial ATA hard drive
* Slot-load SuperDrive (DVD±RW/CD-RW)
* ATI Mobility Radeon X1600 with 128MB GDDR3 memory

And includes closest comparisons to:
* iLife
* FrontRow
* Remote
* iSight

$1,999.00

How much more is this Mac than a PC notebook with the same specs? And
of all of the PC notebooks with an Intel Core Duo, where does this one
rank?

Links please...

[ZnU]

Post by MuahMan
If I had a time machine I could go back to 1999 and comply with your
request.
--
Oh come *on*! There aren't any viruses for Windows - that's just another
Maccie
Sandman on Jan 9, 2006
Ok, so now that you Wintrolls can compare specs since Apple is using
* 15.4-inch TFT display with 1440x900 resolution
* 1.67GHz Intel Core Duo processor with 2MB shared L2 Cache
* 667MHz frontside bus
* 512MB (single SO-DIMM) 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM (PC2-5300)
* 80GB 5400rpm Serial ATA hard drive
* Slot-load SuperDrive (DVD±RW/CD-RW)
* ATI Mobility Radeon X1600 with 128MB GDDR3 memory
* iLife
* FrontRow
* Remote
* iSight
$1,999.00
How much more is this Mac than a PC notebook with the same specs? And
of all of the PC notebooks with an Intel Core Duo, where does this one
rank?
Links please...

Most PC vendors don't appear to have announced pricing for Core Duo
systems yet. Dell has, but the only model they have is a 17".

[Mojo]

Post by MuahMan
If I had a time machine I could go back to 1999 and comply with your
request.

Muahman's been trolling on CSMA for 6 years. What a dumb fuck wintroll
loser. Get life nerd.

[Snit]

Post by Mr Ed Of Course
Ok, so now that you Wintrolls can compare specs since Apple is using
* 15.4-inch TFT display with 1440x900 resolution
* 1.67GHz Intel Core Duo processor with 2MB shared L2 Cache
* 667MHz frontside bus
* 512MB (single SO-DIMM) 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM (PC2-5300)
* 80GB 5400rpm Serial ATA hard drive
* Slot-load SuperDrive (DVD±RW/CD-RW)
* ATI Mobility Radeon X1600 with 128MB GDDR3 memory
* iLife
* FrontRow
* Remote
* iSight
$1,999.00
How much more is this Mac than a PC notebook with the same specs? And
of all of the PC notebooks with an Intel Core Duo, where does this one
rank?
Links please...

Just went to Dell to price systems. Even ignoring the CPU differences I did
not see anything that beat the Mac. Heck, did not see anything even close.

[ed]

Post by Snit

Post by Mr Ed Of Course
Ok, so now that you Wintrolls can compare specs since Apple is using
* 15.4-inch TFT display with 1440x900 resolution
* 1.67GHz Intel Core Duo processor with 2MB shared L2 Cache
* 667MHz frontside bus
* 512MB (single SO-DIMM) 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM (PC2-5300)
* 80GB 5400rpm Serial ATA hard drive
* Slot-load SuperDrive (DVD±RW/CD-RW)
* ATI Mobility Radeon X1600 with 128MB GDDR3 memory
* iLife
* FrontRow
* Remote
* iSight
$1,999.00
How much more is this Mac than a PC notebook with the same specs? And
of all of the PC notebooks with an Intel Core Duo, where does this one
rank?
Links please...

Just went to Dell to price systems. Even ignoring the CPU differences I did
not see anything that beat the Mac. Heck, did not see anything even close.

that's because you've never shown any aptitude at navigating the dell
site. ;D for $1999 from dell, you get:
- larger 17" screen
- faster 1.83 ghz dual core processors w/ the same 2mb l2 cache
- same front side bus
- more memory- 1gb 667mhz ddr2 ram
- same size 5400rpm sata hd
- you do only get a combo drive, but can upgrade for $75, which seems
fair since the screen and processor MORE than makes up for it.

i'm not sure how you're saying there's not anything 'even close'- the
$1999 dell is basically spec'd closer to the $2499 mac than the $1999
mac, and you still get the larger screen. and there was a coupon code
for $500 off on techbargains, but it seems like it's all used up now
(it was up to 4000 uses). stay tuned to that site if you're in the
market for a dell.

http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=19&l=en&oc=E1705S1&s=dhs

[Snit]

Post by ed

Post by Snit

Post by Mr Ed Of Course
Ok, so now that you Wintrolls can compare specs since Apple is using
* 15.4-inch TFT display with 1440x900 resolution
* 1.67GHz Intel Core Duo processor with 2MB shared L2 Cache
* 667MHz frontside bus
* 512MB (single SO-DIMM) 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM (PC2-5300)
* 80GB 5400rpm Serial ATA hard drive
* Slot-load SuperDrive (DVD±RW/CD-RW)
* ATI Mobility Radeon X1600 with 128MB GDDR3 memory
* iLife
* FrontRow
* Remote
* iSight
$1,999.00
How much more is this Mac than a PC notebook with the same specs? And
of all of the PC notebooks with an Intel Core Duo, where does this one
rank?
Links please...

Just went to Dell to price systems. Even ignoring the CPU differences I did
not see anything that beat the Mac. Heck, did not see anything even close.

that's because you've never shown any aptitude at navigating the dell
- larger 17" screen

What quality? How do the video cards compare?

Post by ed
- faster 1.83 ghz dual core processors w/ the same 2mb l2 cache
- same front side bus
- more memory- 1gb 667mhz ddr2 ram
- same size 5400rpm sata hd
- you do only get a combo drive, but can upgrade for $75, which seems
fair since the screen and processor MORE than makes up for it.
i'm not sure how you're saying there's not anything 'even close'- the
$1999 dell is basically spec'd closer to the $2499 mac than the $1999
mac, and you still get the larger screen. and there was a coupon code
for $500 off on techbargains, but it seems like it's all used up now
(it was up to 4000 uses). stay tuned to that site if you're in the
market for a dell.
http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=19&l=en&oc=E1705S1&
s=dhs

What about software? What about the illuminated keyboard? The light
sensor? The remote? The Magsafe connector? Built in iSight camera? Built
in microphone? Optical audio?

Would love to hear what you have to say. :)
--
"I am not a number, I am a free year!" - '06






_________________________________________
Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server
More than 140,000 groups
Unlimited download
http://www.usenetzone.com to open account

[ed]

Post by Snit

Post by ed

Post by Snit

Post by Mr Ed Of Course
Ok, so now that you Wintrolls can compare specs since Apple is using
* 15.4-inch TFT display with 1440x900 resolution
* 1.67GHz Intel Core Duo processor with 2MB shared L2 Cache
* 667MHz frontside bus
* 512MB (single SO-DIMM) 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM (PC2-5300)
* 80GB 5400rpm Serial ATA hard drive
* Slot-load SuperDrive (DVD±RW/CD-RW)
* ATI Mobility Radeon X1600 with 128MB GDDR3 memory
* iLife
* FrontRow
* Remote
* iSight
$1,999.00
How much more is this Mac than a PC notebook with the same specs? And
of all of the PC notebooks with an Intel Core Duo, where does this one
rank?
Links please...

Just went to Dell to price systems. Even ignoring the CPU differences I did
not see anything that beat the Mac. Heck, did not see anything even close.

that's because you've never shown any aptitude at navigating the dell
- larger 17" screen

What quality?

what 'quality'? in what respect? it's the same resolution if that's
what you're asking...

Post by Snit
How do the video cards compare?

according to anandtech the X1600 is ati's 'answer' to nvidia's 7800, so
i would guess they're a similar class card. the 7800 in the dell is
supposed to have more raw processing power, and nvidia has a better rep
in general for providing good drivers, etc.

Post by Snit

Post by ed
- faster 1.83 ghz dual core processors w/ the same 2mb l2 cache
- same front side bus
- more memory- 1gb 667mhz ddr2 ram
- same size 5400rpm sata hd
- you do only get a combo drive, but can upgrade for $75, which seems
fair since the screen and processor MORE than makes up for it.
i'm not sure how you're saying there's not anything 'even close'- the
$1999 dell is basically spec'd closer to the $2499 mac than the $1999
mac, and you still get the larger screen. and there was a coupon code
for $500 off on techbargains, but it seems like it's all used up now
(it was up to 4000 uses). stay tuned to that site if you're in the
market for a dell.
http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=19&l=en&oc=E1705S1&
s=dhs

What about software? What about the illuminated keyboard? The light
sensor? The remote? The Magsafe connector? Built in iSight camera? Built
in microphone? Optical audio?
Would love to hear what you have to say. :)

i would say the same thing everytime mac advocates try to do a
point-by-point comparison. you need to look at the big picture and not
do a point by point comparison. and if you INSIST on a
point-by-point comparison, you need to look at the things the dell has
that the mac doesn't. yup, there's no illuminated keyboard or magsafe
connector on the dell. but the mac doesn't have a 17" screen or 1gb of
ram, which i think are much better to have. built in isight? nope,
but the mac doesn't have a built in modem. a remote is $19 for the
dell, but the 1 yr standard support for the dell sure beats the 90 days
for the mac. the dell does 802.11 a as well as g, but the mac has
gigabit ethernet. the mac has bluetooth, but the dell has more usb
ports, has s-video out, and has a built in 5-in-1 memory card reader.
and the faster processor trumps most of that considering you need to
step up $500 minimum to get it on the mac.

so it's not an apple-to-apples comparison, and it's never going to be,
but to say there's nothing on the dell site that's 'even close' is
ridiculous. my opinion is that the dell is a better deal. you may
feel otherwise because of $80 worth of software that i'm not going to
use, but that's your choice.

[Snit]

Post by ed

Post by Snit

Post by ed

Post by Snit

Post by Mr Ed Of Course
Ok, so now that you Wintrolls can compare specs since Apple is using
* 15.4-inch TFT display with 1440x900 resolution
* 1.67GHz Intel Core Duo processor with 2MB shared L2 Cache
* 667MHz frontside bus
* 512MB (single SO-DIMM) 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM (PC2-5300)
* 80GB 5400rpm Serial ATA hard drive
* Slot-load SuperDrive (DVD±RW/CD-RW)
* ATI Mobility Radeon X1600 with 128MB GDDR3 memory
* iLife
* FrontRow
* Remote
* iSight
$1,999.00
How much more is this Mac than a PC notebook with the same specs? And
of all of the PC notebooks with an Intel Core Duo, where does this one
rank?
Links please...

Just went to Dell to price systems. Even ignoring the CPU differences I did
not see anything that beat the Mac. Heck, did not see anything even close.

that's because you've never shown any aptitude at navigating the dell
- larger 17" screen

What quality?

what 'quality'? in what respect? it's the same resolution if that's
what you're asking...

There is much more to monitor quality than resolution.

Post by ed

Post by Snit
How do the video cards compare?

according to anandtech the X1600 is ati's 'answer' to nvidia's 7800, so
i would guess they're a similar class card. the 7800 in the dell is
supposed to have more raw processing power, and nvidia has a better rep
in general for providing good drivers, etc.

OK. I will take your word. I cannot say I know much about the cards.

Post by ed

Post by Snit

Post by ed
- faster 1.83 ghz dual core processors w/ the same 2mb l2 cache
- same front side bus
- more memory- 1gb 667mhz ddr2 ram
- same size 5400rpm sata hd
- you do only get a combo drive, but can upgrade for $75, which seems
fair since the screen and processor MORE than makes up for it.
i'm not sure how you're saying there's not anything 'even close'- the
$1999 dell is basically spec'd closer to the $2499 mac than the $1999
mac, and you still get the larger screen. and there was a coupon code
for $500 off on techbargains, but it seems like it's all used up now
(it was up to 4000 uses). stay tuned to that site if you're in the
market for a dell.
http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=19&l=en&oc=E1705S
1&
s=dhs

What about software? What about the illuminated keyboard? The light
sensor? The remote? The Magsafe connector? Built in iSight camera? Built
in microphone? Optical audio?
Would love to hear what you have to say. :)

i would say the same thing everytime mac advocates try to do a
point-by-point comparison. you need to look at the big picture and not
do a point by point comparison. and if you INSIST on a
point-by-point comparison, you need to look at the things the dell has
that the mac doesn't. yup, there's no illuminated keyboard or magsafe
connector on the dell. but the mac doesn't have a 17" screen or 1gb of
ram, which i think are much better to have.

The RAM, yes. The bigger screen, depends on your needs.

Post by ed
built in isight? nope, but the mac doesn't have a built in modem. a remote
is $19 for the dell, but the 1 yr standard support for the dell sure beats the
90 days for the mac.

Agreed. Apple's 90 days is weak.

Post by ed
the dell does 802.11 a as well as g, but the mac has
gigabit ethernet. the mac has bluetooth, but the dell has more usb ports, has
s-video out, and has a built in 5-in-1 memory card reader. and the faster
processor trumps most of that considering you need to step up $500 minimum to
get it on the mac.
so it's not an apple-to-apples comparison, and it's never going to be,
but to say there's nothing on the dell site that's 'even close' is
ridiculous. my opinion is that the dell is a better deal. you may
feel otherwise because of $80 worth of software that i'm not going to
use, but that's your choice.

I can accept your argument that the Dell is at least close to the Mac.
Well, if you ignore the OSs. :)

My overall belief is that Apple offers reasonable prices, not that the beat
Dell and others. So this comparison fits well with my general view.

Where Apple "fails" is they do not offer as many options as the whole of the
PC industry. And, of course, they never will.
--
"I am not a number, I am a free year!" - '06






_________________________________________
Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server
More than 140,000 groups
Unlimited download
http://www.usenetzone.com to open account

[ed]

Post by Snit

Post by ed

Post by Snit

Post by ed

Post by Snit

Post by Mr Ed Of Course
Ok, so now that you Wintrolls can compare specs since Apple is using
* 15.4-inch TFT display with 1440x900 resolution
* 1.67GHz Intel Core Duo processor with 2MB shared L2 Cache
* 667MHz frontside bus
* 512MB (single SO-DIMM) 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM (PC2-5300)
* 80GB 5400rpm Serial ATA hard drive
* Slot-load SuperDrive (DVD±RW/CD-RW)
* ATI Mobility Radeon X1600 with 128MB GDDR3 memory
* iLife
* FrontRow
* Remote
* iSight
$1,999.00
How much more is this Mac than a PC notebook with the same specs? And
of all of the PC notebooks with an Intel Core Duo, where does this one
rank?
Links please...

Just went to Dell to price systems. Even ignoring the CPU differences I did
not see anything that beat the Mac. Heck, did not see anything even close.

that's because you've never shown any aptitude at navigating the dell
- larger 17" screen

What quality?

what 'quality'? in what respect? it's the same resolution if that's
what you're asking...

There is much more to monitor quality than resolution.

yes, that's why i asked "what 'quality'? in what respect?". given
that no one's really gotten their grubby little hands on either box,
what sort of answer are you expecting?

Post by Snit

Post by ed

Post by Snit
How do the video cards compare?

according to anandtech the X1600 is ati's 'answer' to nvidia's 7800, so
i would guess they're a similar class card. the 7800 in the dell is
supposed to have more raw processing power, and nvidia has a better rep
in general for providing good drivers, etc.

OK. I will take your word. I cannot say I know much about the cards.

Post by ed

Post by Snit

Post by ed
- faster 1.83 ghz dual core processors w/ the same 2mb l2 cache
- same front side bus
- more memory- 1gb 667mhz ddr2 ram
- same size 5400rpm sata hd
- you do only get a combo drive, but can upgrade for $75, which seems
fair since the screen and processor MORE than makes up for it.
i'm not sure how you're saying there's not anything 'even close'- the
$1999 dell is basically spec'd closer to the $2499 mac than the $1999
mac, and you still get the larger screen. and there was a coupon code
for $500 off on techbargains, but it seems like it's all used up now
(it was up to 4000 uses). stay tuned to that site if you're in the
market for a dell.
http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=19&l=en&oc=E1705S
1&
s=dhs

What about software? What about the illuminated keyboard? The light
sensor? The remote? The Magsafe connector? Built in iSight camera? Built
in microphone? Optical audio?
Would love to hear what you have to say. :)

i would say the same thing everytime mac advocates try to do a
point-by-point comparison. you need to look at the big picture and not
do a point by point comparison. and if you INSIST on a
point-by-point comparison, you need to look at the things the dell has
that the mac doesn't. yup, there's no illuminated keyboard or magsafe
connector on the dell. but the mac doesn't have a 17" screen or 1gb of
ram, which i think are much better to have.

The RAM, yes. The bigger screen, depends on your needs.

whether you need it or not, there's a premium attached to a larger
screen. look at apple's own pricing structure w/ the ibooks.

Post by Snit

Post by ed
built in isight? nope, but the mac doesn't have a built in modem. a remote
is $19 for the dell, but the 1 yr standard support for the dell sure beats the
90 days for the mac.

Agreed. Apple's 90 days is weak.

Post by ed
the dell does 802.11 a as well as g, but the mac has
gigabit ethernet. the mac has bluetooth, but the dell has more usb ports, has
s-video out, and has a built in 5-in-1 memory card reader. and the faster
processor trumps most of that considering you need to step up $500 minimum to
get it on the mac.
so it's not an apple-to-apples comparison, and it's never going to be,
but to say there's nothing on the dell site that's 'even close' is
ridiculous. my opinion is that the dell is a better deal. you may
feel otherwise because of $80 worth of software that i'm not going to
use, but that's your choice.

I can accept your argument that the Dell is at least close to the Mac.
Well, if you ignore the OSs. :)
My overall belief is that Apple offers reasonable prices, not that the beat
Dell and others. So this comparison fits well with my general view.
Where Apple "fails" is they do not offer as many options as the whole of the
PC industry. And, of course, they never will.

[Steve Mackay]

ed wrote:
<snip>

Post by ed

Post by Snit
How do the video cards compare?

according to anandtech the X1600 is ati's 'answer' to nvidia's 7800, so
i would guess they're a similar class card. the 7800 in the dell is
supposed to have more raw processing power, and nvidia has a better rep
in general for providing good drivers, etc.

I was *REALLY* hoping for the Apple to come with Nvidia video. Anyone
who does any sort of Cad/Cam knows the Nvidia "consumer" stuff blows the
ATI stuff away. They just don't seem to be able to get OpenGL quite right.

If the Apple came with Nvidia, I would have ordered one yesterday. But,
instead, I'm going to order the Dell 9400 next time I see some coupons.

[MuahMan]

--
Oh come *on*! There aren't any viruses for Windows - that's just another
Maccie
Sandman on Jan 9, 2006

Post by Steve Mackay
<snip>

Post by ed

Post by Snit
How do the video cards compare?

according to anandtech the X1600 is ati's 'answer' to nvidia's 7800, so
i would guess they're a similar class card. the 7800 in the dell is
supposed to have more raw processing power, and nvidia has a better rep
in general for providing good drivers, etc.

I was *REALLY* hoping for the Apple to come with Nvidia video. Anyone who
does any sort of Cad/Cam knows the Nvidia "consumer" stuff blows the ATI
stuff away. They just don't seem to be able to get OpenGL quite right.
If the Apple came with Nvidia, I would have ordered one yesterday. But,
instead, I'm going to order the Dell 9400 next time I see some coupons.

I received a new coupon for 47% off any Dell laptop or desktop over $1999.00
It kicks in tomorrow for the first 1000 people that use it. You are free to
have it.

[ed]

MuahMan wrote:
<snip>

Post by MuahMan
I received a new coupon for 47% off any Dell laptop or desktop over $1999.00
It kicks in tomorrow for the first 1000 people that use it. You are free to
have it.

post up the code...

[f***@bar.com]

Post by ed
according to anandtech the X1600 is ati's 'answer' to nvidia's 7800, so
i would guess they're a similar class card. the 7800 in the dell is
supposed to have more raw processing power, and nvidia has a better rep
in general for providing good drivers, etc.

I can't agree. The 7800 is nVidia's top of the line card; the x1600
is ATI's mid-range card (the X1800 is ATI's best), and from what I've
seen (look at Toms Hardware video card guide Winter 2005) the X1600
isn't competitive.

[MuahMan]

HP Pavillion ZD8 series:

*17" TFT Active Matrix with BrightView
*Dual Core Pentium D running at 3.6gigz 2MB Cache
*800MHZ frontside bus
*1 GIG DDR SDRAM-533MHZ
*80GIG 7200 RPM IDE Drive
*Double Layer Lighscribe DVD+_RW/CDRW
*ATI PCI Express X700 256MB
* 9 in 1 memory card reader
*Built in FM Tuner
*Dual TV Tuner
*TV Digital Video Recorder
*Full Function Programmable Remote
*Modem
*WiFI
*BlueTooth
*Componenet, Svideo, etc, video out
*built ASTC Tuner and stereo speakers.

$1199 List....

Editors Choice, CNET

http://reviews.cnet.com/HP_Pavilion_zd8000/4507-3121_7-31213300.html?tag=sub

been out about a year.
--
Oh come *on*! There aren't any viruses for Windows - that's just another
Maccie
Sandman on Jan 9, 2006
"Mr Ed Of Course" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:***@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Ok, so now that you Wintrolls can compare specs since Apple is using
Intel chips, what laptops are cheaper than:

* 15.4-inch TFT display with 1440x900 resolution
* 1.67GHz Intel Core Duo processor with 2MB shared L2 Cache
* 667MHz frontside bus
* 512MB (single SO-DIMM) 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM (PC2-5300)
* 80GB 5400rpm Serial ATA hard drive
* Slot-load SuperDrive (DVD±RW/CD-RW)
* ATI Mobility Radeon X1600 with 128MB GDDR3 memory

And includes closest comparisons to:
* iLife
* FrontRow
* Remote
* iSight

$1,999.00

How much more is this Mac than a PC notebook with the same specs? And
of all of the PC notebooks with an Intel Core Duo, where does this one
rank?

Links please...

[Alan Baker]

Post by MuahMan
*17" TFT Active Matrix with BrightView
*Dual Core Pentium D running at 3.6gigz 2MB Cache
*800MHZ frontside bus
*1 GIG DDR SDRAM-533MHZ
*80GIG 7200 RPM IDE Drive
*Double Layer Lighscribe DVD+_RW/CDRW
*ATI PCI Express X700 256MB
* 9 in 1 memory card reader
*Built in FM Tuner
*Dual TV Tuner
*TV Digital Video Recorder
*Full Function Programmable Remote
*Modem
*WiFI
*BlueTooth
*Componenet, Svideo, etc, video out
*built ASTC Tuner and stereo speakers.
$1199 List....
Editors Choice, CNET
http://reviews.cnet.com/HP_Pavilion_zd8000/4507-3121_7-31213300.html?tag=sub
been out about a year.

Your lying won't make it so, Pratt-fall...

Post by MuahMan
--
Oh come *on*! There aren't any viruses for Windows - that's just another
Maccie
Sandman on Jan 9, 2006
Ok, so now that you Wintrolls can compare specs since Apple is using
* 15.4-inch TFT display with 1440x900 resolution
* 1.67GHz Intel Core Duo processor with 2MB shared L2 Cache
* 667MHz frontside bus
* 512MB (single SO-DIMM) 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM (PC2-5300)
* 80GB 5400rpm Serial ATA hard drive
* Slot-load SuperDrive (DVD±RW/CD-RW)
* ATI Mobility Radeon X1600 with 128MB GDDR3 memory
* iLife
* FrontRow
* Remote
* iSight
$1,999.00
How much more is this Mac than a PC notebook with the same specs? And
of all of the PC notebooks with an Intel Core Duo, where does this one
rank?
Links please...

[Lloyd Parsons]

Post by Alan Baker

Post by MuahMan
*17" TFT Active Matrix with BrightView
*Dual Core Pentium D running at 3.6gigz 2MB Cache
*800MHZ frontside bus
*1 GIG DDR SDRAM-533MHZ
*80GIG 7200 RPM IDE Drive
*Double Layer Lighscribe DVD+_RW/CDRW
*ATI PCI Express X700 256MB
* 9 in 1 memory card reader
*Built in FM Tuner
*Dual TV Tuner
*TV Digital Video Recorder
*Full Function Programmable Remote
*Modem
*WiFI
*BlueTooth
*Componenet, Svideo, etc, video out
*built ASTC Tuner and stereo speakers.
$1199 List....
Editors Choice, CNET
http://reviews.cnet.com/HP_Pavilion_zd8000/4507-3121_7-31213300.html?tag=sub
been out about a year.

Your lying won't make it so, Pratt-fall...

Yep, 1199 doesn't get you a 3.6, hell you can't even configure it with a
3.6 on the site.

Doesn't get that hd, gets a smaller 5400 rpm drive, in fact 80gb 7200
isn't even an option

and the ram is 512Mb

Pratt can't even troll good anymore!

Post by Alan Baker

Post by MuahMan
--
Oh come *on*! There aren't any viruses for Windows - that's just another
Maccie
Sandman on Jan 9, 2006
Ok, so now that you Wintrolls can compare specs since Apple is using
* 15.4-inch TFT display with 1440x900 resolution
* 1.67GHz Intel Core Duo processor with 2MB shared L2 Cache
* 667MHz frontside bus
* 512MB (single SO-DIMM) 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM (PC2-5300)
* 80GB 5400rpm Serial ATA hard drive
* Slot-load SuperDrive (DVD±RW/CD-RW)
* ATI Mobility Radeon X1600 with 128MB GDDR3 memory
* iLife
* FrontRow
* Remote
* iSight
$1,999.00
How much more is this Mac than a PC notebook with the same specs? And
of all of the PC notebooks with an Intel Core Duo, where does this one
rank?
Links please...

[MuahMan]

--
Oh come *on*! There aren't any viruses for Windows - that's just another
Maccie
Sandman on Jan 9, 2006

Post by Lloyd Parsons

Post by Alan Baker

Post by MuahMan
*17" TFT Active Matrix with BrightView
*Dual Core Pentium D running at 3.6gigz 2MB Cache
*800MHZ frontside bus
*1 GIG DDR SDRAM-533MHZ
*80GIG 7200 RPM IDE Drive
*Double Layer Lighscribe DVD+_RW/CDRW
*ATI PCI Express X700 256MB
* 9 in 1 memory card reader
*Built in FM Tuner
*Dual TV Tuner
*TV Digital Video Recorder
*Full Function Programmable Remote
*Modem
*WiFI
*BlueTooth
*Componenet, Svideo, etc, video out
*built ASTC Tuner and stereo speakers.
$1199 List....
Editors Choice, CNET
http://reviews.cnet.com/HP_Pavilion_zd8000/4507-3121_7-31213300.html?tag=sub
been out about a year.

Your lying won't make it so, Pratt-fall...

Yep, 1199 doesn't get you a 3.6, hell you can't even configure it with a
3.6 on the site.
Doesn't get that hd, gets a smaller 5400 rpm drive, in fact 80gb 7200
isn't even an option
and the ram is 512Mb
Pratt can't even troll good anymore!

Where are these feature on the "cutting edge" MacBrick?

Post by Lloyd Parsons

Post by Alan Baker
* 9 in 1 memory card reader

nope

Post by Lloyd Parsons

Post by Alan Baker
*Built in FM Tuner

nope

Post by Lloyd Parsons

Post by Alan Baker
*Dual TV Tuner

nope

Post by Lloyd Parsons

Post by Alan Baker
*TV Digital Video Recorder

nope

Post by Lloyd Parsons

Post by Alan Baker
*Full Function Programmable Remote

nope

Post by Lloyd Parsons

Post by Alan Baker
*Modem

nope

Post by Lloyd Parsons

Post by Alan Baker
*WiFI

crappier

Post by Lloyd Parsons

Post by Alan Baker
*BlueTooth

crappier

Post by Lloyd Parsons

Post by Alan Baker
*Componenet, Svideo, etc, video out

nope

Post by Lloyd Parsons

Post by Alan Baker
*built ASTC Tuner and stereo speakers.

nope

Post by Lloyd Parsons

Post by Alan Baker

Post by MuahMan
--
Oh come *on*! There aren't any viruses for Windows - that's just another
Maccie
Sandman on Jan 9, 2006
Ok, so now that you Wintrolls can compare specs since Apple is using
* 15.4-inch TFT display with 1440x900 resolution
* 1.67GHz Intel Core Duo processor with 2MB shared L2 Cache
* 667MHz frontside bus
* 512MB (single SO-DIMM) 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM (PC2-5300)
* 80GB 5400rpm Serial ATA hard drive
* Slot-load SuperDrive (DVD±RW/CD-RW)
* ATI Mobility Radeon X1600 with 128MB GDDR3 memory
* iLife
* FrontRow
* Remote
* iSight
$1,999.00
How much more is this Mac than a PC notebook with the same specs? And
of all of the PC notebooks with an Intel Core Duo, where does this one
rank?
Links please...

[Lloyd Parsons]

Post by MuahMan
--
Oh come *on*! There aren't any viruses for Windows - that's just another
Maccie
Sandman on Jan 9, 2006

Post by Lloyd Parsons

Post by Alan Baker

Post by MuahMan
*17" TFT Active Matrix with BrightView
*Dual Core Pentium D running at 3.6gigz 2MB Cache
*800MHZ frontside bus
*1 GIG DDR SDRAM-533MHZ
*80GIG 7200 RPM IDE Drive
*Double Layer Lighscribe DVD+_RW/CDRW
*ATI PCI Express X700 256MB
* 9 in 1 memory card reader
*Built in FM Tuner
*Dual TV Tuner
*TV Digital Video Recorder
*Full Function Programmable Remote
*Modem
*WiFI
*BlueTooth
*Componenet, Svideo, etc, video out
*built ASTC Tuner and stereo speakers.
$1199 List....
Editors Choice, CNET
http://reviews.cnet.com/HP_Pavilion_zd8000/4507-3121_7-31213300.html?tag=
sub
been out about a year.

Your lying won't make it so, Pratt-fall...

Yep, 1199 doesn't get you a 3.6, hell you can't even configure it with a
3.6 on the site.
Doesn't get that hd, gets a smaller 5400 rpm drive, in fact 80gb 7200
isn't even an option
and the ram is 512Mb
Pratt can't even troll good anymore!

Where are these feature on the "cutting edge" MacBrick?

First off, most of them aren't needed or wanted on a pro level machine.
But to the toy lovers, I guess you buy an HP.

Post by MuahMan

Post by Lloyd Parsons

Post by Alan Baker
* 9 in 1 memory card reader

nope

That would be nice. Can HP do it with less weight?

Post by MuahMan

Post by Lloyd Parsons

Post by Alan Baker
*Built in FM Tuner

nope

Post by Lloyd Parsons

Post by Alan Baker
*Dual TV Tuner

nope

Post by Lloyd Parsons

Post by Alan Baker
*TV Digital Video Recorder

nope

Post by Lloyd Parsons

Post by Alan Baker
*Full Function Programmable Remote

nope

I got all those on my home rig, it is called a Home Entertainment
System. I don't need it on my computer at all.

Post by MuahMan

Post by Lloyd Parsons

Post by Alan Baker
*Modem

nope

I don't understand why Apple didn't do that.

Post by MuahMan

Post by Lloyd Parsons

Post by Alan Baker
*WiFI

crappier

Post by Lloyd Parsons

Post by Alan Baker
*BlueTooth

crappier

Crappier than what?

Post by MuahMan

Post by Lloyd Parsons

Post by Alan Baker
*Componenet, Svideo, etc, video out

nope

Has DVI out instead of Svideo -- I guess they want to support HD more
than the crappier Svideo. Also comes with DVI to VGA converter.

Post by MuahMan

Post by Lloyd Parsons

Post by Alan Baker
*built ASTC Tuner and stereo speakers.

nope

Tuner, who cares.

Stereo speakers on a laptop? Funny! I've seen them, but to call it
stereo and hear it that way is a joke.

Post by MuahMan

Post by Lloyd Parsons

Post by Alan Baker

Post by MuahMan
--
Oh come *on*! There aren't any viruses for Windows - that's just another
Maccie
Sandman on Jan 9, 2006
Ok, so now that you Wintrolls can compare specs since Apple is using
* 15.4-inch TFT display with 1440x900 resolution
* 1.67GHz Intel Core Duo processor with 2MB shared L2 Cache
* 667MHz frontside bus
* 512MB (single SO-DIMM) 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM (PC2-5300)
* 80GB 5400rpm Serial ATA hard drive
* Slot-load SuperDrive (DVD±RW/CD-RW)
* ATI Mobility Radeon X1600 with 128MB GDDR3 memory
* iLife
* FrontRow
* Remote
* iSight
$1,999.00
How much more is this Mac than a PC notebook with the same specs? And
of all of the PC notebooks with an Intel Core Duo, where does this one
rank?
Links please...

[Alan Baker]

Post by MuahMan
*built ASTC Tuner and stereo speakers.

Shows your level of understanding:

Stereo speakers: yes.

[Alan Baker]

Post by Lloyd Parsons

Post by Alan Baker

Post by MuahMan
*17" TFT Active Matrix with BrightView
*Dual Core Pentium D running at 3.6gigz 2MB Cache
*800MHZ frontside bus
*1 GIG DDR SDRAM-533MHZ
*80GIG 7200 RPM IDE Drive
*Double Layer Lighscribe DVD+_RW/CDRW
*ATI PCI Express X700 256MB
* 9 in 1 memory card reader
*Built in FM Tuner
*Dual TV Tuner
*TV Digital Video Recorder
*Full Function Programmable Remote
*Modem
*WiFI
*BlueTooth
*Componenet, Svideo, etc, video out
*built ASTC Tuner and stereo speakers.
$1199 List....
Editors Choice, CNET
http://reviews.cnet.com/HP_Pavilion_zd8000/4507-3121_7-31213300.html?tag=s
ub
been out about a year.

Your lying won't make it so, Pratt-fall...

Yep, 1199 doesn't get you a 3.6, hell you can't even configure it with a
3.6 on the site.
Doesn't get that hd, gets a smaller 5400 rpm drive, in fact 80gb 7200
isn't even an option
and the ram is 512Mb
Pratt can't even troll good anymore!

I know. I broke him...

[Steve Carroll]

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Lloyd Parsons

Post by Alan Baker

Post by MuahMan
*17" TFT Active Matrix with BrightView
*Dual Core Pentium D running at 3.6gigz 2MB Cache
*800MHZ frontside bus
*1 GIG DDR SDRAM-533MHZ
*80GIG 7200 RPM IDE Drive
*Double Layer Lighscribe DVD+_RW/CDRW
*ATI PCI Express X700 256MB
* 9 in 1 memory card reader
*Built in FM Tuner
*Dual TV Tuner
*TV Digital Video Recorder
*Full Function Programmable Remote
*Modem
*WiFI
*BlueTooth
*Componenet, Svideo, etc, video out
*built ASTC Tuner and stereo speakers.
$1199 List....
Editors Choice, CNET
http://reviews.cnet.com/HP_Pavilion_zd8000/4507-3121_7-31213300.html?tag
=s
ub
been out about a year.

Your lying won't make it so, Pratt-fall...

Yep, 1199 doesn't get you a 3.6, hell you can't even configure it with a
3.6 on the site.
Doesn't get that hd, gets a smaller 5400 rpm drive, in fact 80gb 7200
isn't even an option
and the ram is 512Mb
Pratt can't even troll good anymore!

I know. I broke him...

That was a short reign he had... you've reverted him back to the
juvenile mass of blubbering jelly he previously was;)

[Buzz]

Post by Steve Carroll

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Lloyd Parsons

Post by Alan Baker

Post by MuahMan
*17" TFT Active Matrix with BrightView
*Dual Core Pentium D running at 3.6gigz 2MB Cache
*800MHZ frontside bus
*1 GIG DDR SDRAM-533MHZ
*80GIG 7200 RPM IDE Drive
*Double Layer Lighscribe DVD+_RW/CDRW
*ATI PCI Express X700 256MB
* 9 in 1 memory card reader
*Built in FM Tuner
*Dual TV Tuner
*TV Digital Video Recorder
*Full Function Programmable Remote
*Modem
*WiFI
*BlueTooth
*Componenet, Svideo, etc, video out
*built ASTC Tuner and stereo speakers.
$1199 List....
Editors Choice, CNET
http://reviews.cnet.com/HP_Pavilion_zd8000/4507-3121_7-31213300.html?tag
=s
ub
been out about a year.

Your lying won't make it so, Pratt-fall...

Yep, 1199 doesn't get you a 3.6, hell you can't even configure it with a
3.6 on the site.
Doesn't get that hd, gets a smaller 5400 rpm drive, in fact 80gb 7200
isn't even an option
and the ram is 512Mb
Pratt can't even troll good anymore!

I know. I broke him...

That was a short reign he had... you've reverted him back to the
juvenile mass of blubbering jelly he previously was;)

MuahMan has sounded shrill and desperate since he came back.

[ZnU]

Post by MuahMan
*17" TFT Active Matrix with BrightView
*Dual Core Pentium D running at 3.6gigz 2MB Cache
*800MHZ frontside bus
*1 GIG DDR SDRAM-533MHZ
*80GIG 7200 RPM IDE Drive
*Double Layer Lighscribe DVD+_RW/CDRW
*ATI PCI Express X700 256MB
* 9 in 1 memory card reader
*Built in FM Tuner
*Dual TV Tuner
*TV Digital Video Recorder
*Full Function Programmable Remote
*Modem
*WiFI
*BlueTooth
*Componenet, Svideo, etc, video out
*built ASTC Tuner and stereo speakers.
$1199 List....
Editors Choice, CNET
http://reviews.cnet.com/HP_Pavilion_zd8000/4507-3121_7-31213300.html?tag=sub
been out about a year.

At nearly 10 pounds (over 12 with power adaptor) and 1.85" thick, it's
more of a luggable than a laptop. Battery life can't exactly be great
with that chip either. Not a comparable product.

The closest match I've found for the MacBook Pro so far is the Gateway
S-7510N, which is about $1550 when configured as closely as possible to
the $1999 Apple machine. But its video isn't quite as good, and it
doesn't have bluetooth, a camera, a remote, or an illuminated keyboard.
And of course, the software bundle is pretty lame, starting with XP Home.

Apple is in good shape here.

[i***@mac.com]

Post by MuahMan
*17" TFT Active Matrix with BrightView
*Dual Core Pentium D running at 3.6gigz 2MB Cache

Wrong, the ZD8000 has Pentium 6x0 class, up to 3.4 on the HP site.

Post by MuahMan
*800MHZ frontside bus
*1 GIG DDR SDRAM-533MHZ
*80GIG 7200 RPM IDE Drive
*Double Layer Lighscribe DVD+_RW/CDRW
*ATI PCI Express X700 256MB
* 9 in 1 memory card reader
*Built in FM Tuner
*Dual TV Tuner
*TV Digital Video Recorder
*Full Function Programmable Remote
*Modem
*WiFI
*BlueTooth
*Componenet, Svideo, etc, video out
*built ASTC Tuner and stereo speakers.
$1199 List....

$1700 as configured, and doesn't have PCIe (x1600) graphics, the Yonah
dual-core CPU, so it's last year's tech.

Post by MuahMan
http://reviews.cnet.com/HP_Pavilion_zd8000/4507-3121_7-31213300.html?tag=sub
been out about a year.

ah right, you already know that.

[||| Oxford |||]

Post by MuahMan
*17" TFT Active Matrix with BrightView
*Dual Core Pentium D running at 3.6gigz 2MB Cache
*800MHZ frontside bus
*1 GIG DDR SDRAM-533MHZ
*80GIG 7200 RPM IDE Drive
*Double Layer Lighscribe DVD+_RW/CDRW
*ATI PCI Express X700 256MB
* 9 in 1 memory card reader
*Built in FM Tuner
*Dual TV Tuner
*TV Digital Video Recorder
*Full Function Programmable Remote
*Modem
*WiFI
*BlueTooth
*Componenet, Svideo, etc, video out
*built ASTC Tuner and stereo speakers.
$1199 List....
Editors Choice, CNET
http://reviews.cnet.com/HP_Pavilion_zd8000/4507-3121_7-31213300.html?tag=sub
been out about a year.

that's an old Pentium D, its totally different than what Apple announced
today. try and find the new Intel Core Duo, bet you can't since it was
only released 4 days ago.

[ed]

Post by Mr Ed Of Course
Ok, so now that you Wintrolls can compare specs since Apple is using
* 15.4-inch TFT display with 1440x900 resolution
* 1.67GHz Intel Core Duo processor with 2MB shared L2 Cache
* 667MHz frontside bus
* 512MB (single SO-DIMM) 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM (PC2-5300)
* 80GB 5400rpm Serial ATA hard drive
* Slot-load SuperDrive (DVD±RW/CD-RW)
* ATI Mobility Radeon X1600 with 128MB GDDR3 memory
* iLife
* FrontRow
* Remote
* iSight
$1,999.00
How much more is this Mac than a PC notebook with the same specs? And
of all of the PC notebooks with an Intel Core Duo, where does this one
rank?
Links please...

http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=19&l=en&oc=E1705S1&s=dhs

[George Graves]

Post by ed

Post by Mr Ed Of Course
Ok, so now that you Wintrolls can compare specs since Apple is using
* 15.4-inch TFT display with 1440x900 resolution
* 1.67GHz Intel Core Duo processor with 2MB shared L2 Cache
* 667MHz frontside bus
* 512MB (single SO-DIMM) 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM (PC2-5300)
* 80GB 5400rpm Serial ATA hard drive
* Slot-load SuperDrive (DVD±RW/CD-RW)
* ATI Mobility Radeon X1600 with 128MB GDDR3 memory
* iLife
* FrontRow
* Remote
* iSight
$1,999.00
How much more is this Mac than a PC notebook with the same specs? And
of all of the PC notebooks with an Intel Core Duo, where does this one
rank?
Links please...

http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=19&l=en&oc=E1705S1&
s=dhs

Does any Microsoft OS even support dual core processors? I'm pretty sure
that the regular XP does not. Does XP-Pro?

[Steve Mackay]

Post by George Graves

Post by ed

Post by Mr Ed Of Course
Ok, so now that you Wintrolls can compare specs since Apple is using
* 15.4-inch TFT display with 1440x900 resolution
* 1.67GHz Intel Core Duo processor with 2MB shared L2 Cache
* 667MHz frontside bus
* 512MB (single SO-DIMM) 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM (PC2-5300)
* 80GB 5400rpm Serial ATA hard drive
* Slot-load SuperDrive (DVD±RW/CD-RW)
* ATI Mobility Radeon X1600 with 128MB GDDR3 memory
* iLife
* FrontRow
* Remote
* iSight
$1,999.00
How much more is this Mac than a PC notebook with the same specs? And
of all of the PC notebooks with an Intel Core Duo, where does this one
rank?
Links please...

http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=19&l=en&oc=E1705S1&
s=dhs

Does any Microsoft OS even support dual core processors? I'm pretty sure
that the regular XP does not. Does XP-Pro?

Yes, XP Pro & home BOTH support Dual core.

[Patrick Nihill]

Post by George Graves

Post by ed

Ok, so now that you Wintrolls can compare specs since e aApple is using
* 15.4-inch TFT display with 1440x900 resolution
* 1.67GHz Intel Core Duo processor with 2MB shared L2 Cache
* 667MHz frontside bus
* 512MB (single SO-DIMM) 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM (PC2-5300)
* 80GB 5400rpm Serial ATA hard drive
* Slot-load SuperDrive (DVD±RW/CD-RW)
* ATI Mobility Radeon X1600 with 128MB GDDR3 memory
* iLife
* FrontRow
* Remote
* iSight
$1,999.00
How much more is this Mac than a PC notebook with the same specs? And
of all of the PC notebooks with an Intel Core Duo, where does this one
rank?
Links please...

http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=19&l=en&oc=E1
705S1& s=dhs

Does any Microsoft OS even support dual core processors? I'm pretty sure
that the regular XP does not. Does XP-Pro?

Both XP Home and Pro support dual-core processors.

<http://www.amd.com/us-en/Weblets/0,,7832_8366_7595~95364,00.html>

[StormDrain]

Post by Patrick Nihill

Post by George Graves

Post by ed

Ok, so now that you Wintrolls can compare specs since e aApple is using
* 15.4-inch TFT display with 1440x900 resolution
* 1.67GHz Intel Core Duo processor with 2MB shared L2 Cache
* 667MHz frontside bus
* 512MB (single SO-DIMM) 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM (PC2-5300)
* 80GB 5400rpm Serial ATA hard drive
* Slot-load SuperDrive (DVD±RW/CD-RW)
* ATI Mobility Radeon X1600 with 128MB GDDR3 memory
* iLife
* FrontRow
* Remote
* iSight
$1,999.00
How much more is this Mac than a PC notebook with the same specs? And
of all of the PC notebooks with an Intel Core Duo, where does this one
rank?
Links please...

http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=19&l=en&oc=E1
705S1& s=dhs

Does any Microsoft OS even support dual core processors? I'm pretty sure
that the regular XP does not. Does XP-Pro?

Both XP Home and Pro support dual-core processors.

It's more AMD or Intel supporting windows, nothing windows has supports
SMP or rather uses SMP instructions. SP2 did try to retrofit a few
rudimentary instructions but mainly it throws off a few more threads.

Post by Patrick Nihill
<http://www.amd.com/us-en/Weblets/0,,7832_8366_7595~95364,00.html>

Linux yes, Solaris yes..but not windows, sorry. Maybe longshot or
whatever they are calling it these days, but I doubt it. :)

[MuahMan]

--
Oh come *on*! There aren't any viruses for Windows - that's just another
Maccie
Sandman on Jan 9, 2006

Post by George Graves

Post by ed

Post by Mr Ed Of Course
Ok, so now that you Wintrolls can compare specs since Apple is using
* 15.4-inch TFT display with 1440x900 resolution
* 1.67GHz Intel Core Duo processor with 2MB shared L2 Cache
* 667MHz frontside bus
* 512MB (single SO-DIMM) 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM (PC2-5300)
* 80GB 5400rpm Serial ATA hard drive
* Slot-load SuperDrive (DVD±RW/CD-RW)
* ATI Mobility Radeon X1600 with 128MB GDDR3 memory
* iLife
* FrontRow
* Remote
* iSight
$1,999.00
How much more is this Mac than a PC notebook with the same specs? And
of all of the PC notebooks with an Intel Core Duo, where does this one
rank?
Links please...

http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=19&l=en&oc=E1705S1&
s=dhs

Does any Microsoft OS even support dual core processors? I'm pretty sure
that the regular XP does not. Does XP-Pro?

LOL LOL LOL LOL...... Dual Core processors have been out for 2 years twat.
Just because Apple only got them yesterday doesn't mean they just got
invented yesterday. Hysterical. I've been running a dual core processor
faster than the one Apple uses for over a year.

Post by George Graves
--
George Graves

[Mayor of R'lyeh]

Post by George Graves

Post by ed

Post by Mr Ed Of Course
Ok, so now that you Wintrolls can compare specs since Apple is using
* 15.4-inch TFT display with 1440x900 resolution
* 1.67GHz Intel Core Duo processor with 2MB shared L2 Cache
* 667MHz frontside bus
* 512MB (single SO-DIMM) 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM (PC2-5300)
* 80GB 5400rpm Serial ATA hard drive
* Slot-load SuperDrive (DVD±RW/CD-RW)
* ATI Mobility Radeon X1600 with 128MB GDDR3 memory
* iLife
* FrontRow
* Remote
* iSight
$1,999.00
How much more is this Mac than a PC notebook with the same specs? And
of all of the PC notebooks with an Intel Core Duo, where does this one
rank?
Links please...

http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=19&l=en&oc=E1705S1&
s=dhs

Does any Microsoft OS even support dual core processors? I'm pretty sure
that the regular XP does not. Does XP-Pro?

And George still wonders why everyone thinks his opinion of Windows is
100% uninformed.

[f***@bar.com]

Post by George Graves
Does any Microsoft OS even support dual core processors? I'm pretty sure
that the regular XP does not. Does XP-Pro?

It's amazing you can even write that with a straight face, George.