Sideloading is not evil - it's what almost all the common consumer operating systems do

[Andy Burnelli]

For the permanent Usenet record... and for others to discuss...

*Sideloading is not evil* ...in fact... *sideloading is normal*

Bear in mind on the topic of "sideloading", there is only a single common
consumer operating system that doesn't allow you to go to any developer's
URL pointing to a package to load it. Only iOS. Just iOS. Nobody else.

It needs to be repeated because "sideloading" isn't anything special.
*No other operating system disallows installing a package by URL but iOS*

The reason I make this point is that sideloading isn't something evel; it's
not something risky; it's not something special. It's quite normal.

It's only considered "evil" on one consumer operating system & one alone.

We could go into _why_ Apple considers installing an executable by URL
evil, since it plays into Apple's overall strategy of making money off of
limiting the consumers' choices - but suffice to say sideloading is normal.

*Only in one operating system is installing a non-mothership app evil*

[John]

Post by Andy Burnelli
For the permanent Usenet record... and for others to discuss...
  *Sideloading is not evil* ...in fact... *sideloading is normal*
Bear in mind on the topic of "sideloading", there is only a single
common consumer operating system that doesn't allow you to go to any
developer's URL pointing to a package to load it. Only iOS. Just iOS.
Nobody else.
It needs to be repeated because "sideloading" isn't anything special.
*No other operating system disallows installing a package by URL but iOS*
The reason I make this point is that sideloading isn't something evel;
it's not something risky; it's not something special. It's quite normal.
It's only considered "evil" on one consumer operating system & one alone.
We could go into _why_ Apple considers installing an executable by URL
evil, since it plays into Apple's overall strategy of making money off
of limiting the consumers' choices - but suffice to say sideloading is
normal.
 *Only in one operating system is installing a non-mothership app evil*

Yes and it is why Android is such a clusterfuck of malware.

[Big Dog]

Post by John
Yes and it is why Android is such a clusterfuck of malware.

Android had far less malware than iOS for more than five years in a row.

[Alan]

Post by Big Dog

Post by John
Yes and it is why Android is such a clusterfuck of malware.

Android had far less malware than iOS for more than five years in a row.

I'm going to need a cite for that, sunshine.

[Cecil Westerhof]

Post by Alan

Post by Big Dog

Post by John
Yes and it is why Android is such a clusterfuck of malware.

Android had far less malware than iOS for more than five years in a row.

I'm going to need a cite for that, sunshine.

But you do not have to do the equivalent for:
Yes and it is why Android is such a clusterfuck of malware.

Curious indeed.

[Alan]

Post by John

Post by Alan

Post by Big Dog

Post by John
Yes and it is why Android is such a clusterfuck of malware.

Android had far less malware than iOS for more than five years in a row.

I'm going to need a cite for that, sunshine.

Yes and it is why Android is such a clusterfuck of malware.
Curious indeed.

On is purely opinion and one states a testable proposition.

Does that help you understand?

[Alan]

Post by John

Post by Alan

Post by Big Dog

Post by John
Yes and it is why Android is such a clusterfuck of malware.

Android had far less malware than iOS for more than five years in a row.

I'm going to need a cite for that, sunshine.

Yes and it is why Android is such a clusterfuck of malware.
Curious indeed.

But since you asked:

<https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/android-malware-apps-with-2-million-installs-spotted-on-google-play/>

<https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/new-hook-android-malware-lets-hackers-remotely-control-your-phone/>

<https://www.tomsguide.com/news/hackers-have-developed-a-clever-new-way-to-add-malware-to-android-apps>

[Incubus]

Post by Alan

Post by John

Post by Alan

Post by Big Dog

Post by John
Yes and it is why Android is such a clusterfuck of malware.

Android had far less malware than iOS for more than five years in a row.

I'm going to need a cite for that, sunshine.

Yes and it is why Android is such a clusterfuck of malware.
Curious indeed.

<https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/android-malware-apps-with-2-million-installs-spotted-on-google-play/>
<https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/new-hook-android-malware-lets-hackers-remotely-control-your-phone/>
<https://www.tomsguide.com/news/hackers-have-developed-a-clever-new-way-to-add-malware-to-android-apps>

Knowing how Apple users never understand security issues because they don't
actually read anything before they respond to it - they don't ever think
(which is why they're so excited by emoji and they ignore all iOS bugs).

Curious that not a single one of those "references" compares iOS malware to
Android malware. Maybe this alan didn't read the topic before posting?

As an example, I put into Google the same title of the last url above and
just changed Android to iOS and that alone, not surprisingly, found far
more similar articles but for iOS and not for Android.

These are just as meaningless but to make the point clear how poorly the
iOS devices handle security, let's just list them exactly as alan did.

https://thehackernews.com/2020/03/iphone-iOS-spyware.html
https://thehackernews.com/2019/04/exodus-ios-malware.html
https://thehackernews.com/2016/03/how-to-hack-iphone.html
https://thehackernews.com/2016/01/ios-apps-jspatch-hack.html
https://thehackernews.com/2015/10/apple-ios-malware-apps.html
https://thehackernews.com/2015/10/xcodeghost-ios-malware.html
https://thehackernews.com/2015/10/ios-malware-attack.html
https://thehackernews.com/2015/10/ios-malware-attack.html
https://thehackernews.com/2015/09/ios-malware-cyber-attack.html
https://thehackernews.com/2014/11/suspected-wirelurker-ios-malware.html
https://thehackernews.com/2014/08/adthief-chinese-malware-infects-over.html
https://thehackernews.com/2020/03/iphone-iOS-spyware.html

And that's just from one up to date web site.

I'm not saying this proves how insecure iOS is nowadays compared to
Android. I'm just saying alan's response was just as meaningless.

Maybe alan didn't read the thread before he had responded?

Not only is sideloading normal on almost all computers, but the iOS devices
have been far worse in terms of malware than Android for many years now.

I guess alan thought we wouldn't notice he has no basis for his claims.
Besides, the topic is sideloading, which all normal operating systems do.

[sms]

On 4/3/2023 7:04 PM, Big Dog wrote:

<snip>

Post by Big Dog
Android had far less malware than iOS for more than five years in a row.

It's not true when you include sideloading.

[nospam]

Post by sms

Post by Big Dog
Android had far less malware than iOS for more than five years in a row.

It's not true when you include sideloading.

it's also not true when you don't.

<https://www.zdnet.com/article/play-store-identified-as-main-distributio
n-vector-for-most-android-malware/>
The official Google Play Store has been identified as the primary
source of malware installs on Android devices in a recent academic
study ‹ considered the largest one of its kind carried out to date.
...
The results showed that around 67% of the malicious app
installs researchers identified came from the Google Play Store.

<https://www.tomsguide.com/news/malware-hits-10-million-android-users-de
lete-these-apps-right-now>
Malware and adware continue to be a major problem on the Play Store

[Jolly Roger]

Post by nospam

Post by sms

Post by Big Dog
Android had far less malware than iOS for more than five years in a row.

It's not true when you include sideloading.

it's also not true when you don't.
<https://www.zdnet.com/article/play-store-identified-as-main-distributio
n-vector-for-most-android-malware/>
The official Google Play Store has been identified as the primary
source of malware installs on Android devices in a recent academic
study ‹ considered the largest one of its kind carried out to date.
...
The results showed that around 67% of the malicious app
installs researchers identified came from the Google Play Store.
<https://www.tomsguide.com/news/malware-hits-10-million-android-users-de
lete-these-apps-right-now>
Malware and adware continue to be a major problem on the Play Store

Bets on whether sms adds these to his little document?

[Maxmillian]

Post by sms

Post by Big Dog
Android had far less malware than iOS for more than five years in a row.

It's not true when you include sideloading.

When is the last time you owned an Android phone & installed an app?
If it's more than five years ago, then that's why you said that. :->

Things have changed a lot in the last five years with Google Play Protect.

If it's more than five years since you have touched an Android phone, you
need to catch up on how Google has improved the GPP instant & daily scans.
https://developers.google.com/android/play-protect

Look at the part where it makes no distinction between Google Play Store
apps and apps sideloaded from outside the Google Play Store. Same scan.

Let me know if you need to know more because it's way better than what
Apple does as Apple doesn't scan every day all the apps on the device.

[sms]

Post by Maxmillian

Post by sms

Post by Big Dog
Android had far less malware than iOS for more than five years in a row.

It's not true when you include sideloading.

When is the last time you owned an Android phone & installed an app?
If it's more than five years ago, then that's why you said that. :->

Uh, I own multiple Android phones right now. A Pixel 7 Pro is my main
Android device. I do sideload apps, on occasion, and use F-Droid.

[Maxmillian]

Post by sms

Post by Maxmillian
When is the last time you owned an Android phone & installed an app?
If it's more than five years ago, then that's why you said that. :->

Uh, I own multiple Android phones right now. A Pixel 7 Pro is my main
Android device. I do sideload apps, on occasion, and use F-Droid.

Oh. Sorry. I thought you were an iPhone owner because of what you said
about sideloading malware which usually uninformed iPhone owners say.

Maybe you just didn't know that Google Play Protect scans for malware on
Android such that there is no risk from sideloading any different from
getting the app off the Google Play Store. It's the same scan for both.

Did you click on the link for what Google Play Protect does for you?
https://developers.google.com/android/play-protect

If you like, you can ask me questions about GPP after you read that link.

[sms]

Post by Maxmillian

Post by sms

Post by Maxmillian
When is the last time you owned an Android phone & installed an app?
If it's more than five years ago, then that's why you said that. :->

Uh, I own multiple Android phones right now. A Pixel 7 Pro is my main
Android device. I do sideload apps, on occasion, and use F-Droid.

Oh. Sorry. I thought you were an iPhone owner because of what you said
about sideloading malware which usually uninformed iPhone owners say.
Maybe you just didn't know that Google Play Protect scans for malware on
Android such that there is no risk from sideloading any different from
getting the app off the Google Play Store. It's the same scan for both.

Do you not understand that there are hundreds of app stores besides the
Google Play Store? The Google Play Store is not even available at all in
China. It's not apps from the Google Play Store that are the issue,
whether directly installed or installed via the apk. There is no way
that Google can scan for malware in those other apps.

[Maxmillian]

Post by sms

Post by Maxmillian
Maybe you just didn't know that Google Play Protect scans for malware on
Android such that there is no risk from sideloading any different from
getting the app off the Google Play Store. It's the same scan for both.

Do you not understand that there are hundreds of app stores besides the
Google Play Store?

This is going to be long but the entire message is unnecessary if you would
have read and understood the link about the GPP scan which you didn't read.
https://developers.google.com/android/play-protect

I'm sorry for not letting you know that I'm aware of virtually every place
you can get Android apps, where I don't know how to get you to stop
guessing at what GPP does so that you can understand what I said it does.

I don't know why you think all the things you think but they're wrong.
They are so wrong that it's why I thought you were an iPhone owner.

I'm sorry to have to say that to you but you need to understand GPP.
Currently it's obvious you don't know how GPP works.

I'm not sure where you have the disconnect, but the fact you bothered to
tell me about other repositories probably means you don't understand that
it doesn't matter WHERE you get the app from.

You can get the app from any dodgy malware-filled apk server, and GPP will
STILL run on that app at installation time, and once a day on the whole
smartphone.

I'm so sorry but I realize you don't know much about Android & therefore
I'm sorry to have to say it that way - but it seems like you think GPP only
scans Google Play Store apps & nothing could be further from the truth.

That's why there's no more danger from installing an app from the Google
Play Store than there is from installing an app from the dodgyest site you
can find on malware.hackers.com types of web sites.

The ONLY difference is that Google has "pre selected" the apps on the
Google Play Store but Google Play Protect still runs on EVERY app installed
so you get the same malware scan no matter where you got the APK from.

Windows works the same way so this shouldn't be a foreign concept to
Android owners (it should only seem strange to iPhone owners because they
can't easily install app IPAs from outside their locked-down app store).

Post by sms
The Google Play Store is not even available at all in
China.

See above. GPP isn't part of the Google Play Store.
It's outside the Google Play Store.

(There are details involved but they are too complicated for you right now
because you think GPP is part of the Google Play Store - but it's not.)

Post by sms
It's not apps from the Google Play Store that are the issue,

I'm sorry but when you say that, you sound like a dumb iPhone owner.
I'm sorry, but you are set in your mind with a very dead wrong opinion.

If it's going to take a half dozen posts or more before you realize that
yuor mind is set wrong then I am sorry if I have to tell you you're wrong.

The GPP scan has nothing to do (directly) with the Google Play Store!

I shouldn't have to repeat this five or ten times that it doesn't matter
WHERE the apps come from - the GPP scanner will scan them no matter what.

Post by sms
whether directly installed or installed via the apk. There is no way
that Google can scan for malware in those other apps.

I am so sorry to have to say this but are starting to sound like an iPhone
owner because I gave you a link that shows that statement to be so wrong
that the only way you can keep repeating it is if you're just trolling.

The GPP scan doesn't care WHERE the app came from.
The GPP scan has NOTHING to do with the Google Play Store (not directly).

Think of the GPP scanner as nothing different than an AV scan on Windows.

The fact that it comes from Google doesn't mean it only scans Google Play
Store apps just like the Windows Defender will scan any apps, not just apps
that come from the Microsoft Store.

I shouldn't have to keep pointing you to the same link until you get it.

You should have understood this the first time, so I don't know if you're
just playing with me like the iPhone owners love to do or not.

Read the link and when you read what it does, FORGET anything you
previously thought about GPP only scanning Google Play Store apps.
https://developers.google.com/android/play-protect

If you keep that in mind, ask me any questions because I left out a lot of
details but you're not ready for those details until you open your mind up.

I'm sorry if I sound rude to you but you have your mind set up like the
iPhone owners do so you're not understanding what this link actually says.
https://developers.google.com/android/play-protect

[Peter Moylan]

Post by sms
Do you not understand that there are hundreds of app stores besides the
Google Play Store? The Google Play Store is not even available at all in
China. It's not apps from the Google Play Store that are the issue,
whether directly installed or installed via the apk. There is no way
that Google can scan for malware in those other apps.

It doesn't seem like you've ever read anything about google play protect.

It scans all apps on the device.
Not just apps you got from the google play store.

Since you're obviously too busy to look things up, here's a readers digest
version, literally a readers digest version.

https://www.rd.com/article/google-play-protect/

"Before you download an app that's not on the Google Play store, Google
Play Protect runs a thorough safety check to ensure there aren't any
issues. (Apps on the Google Play store have already undergone virus
scanning.) From there, Google Play Protect scans the apps on your phone on
a daily basis and can also be used on-demand.

Google Play Protect is probably the most effective 'malicious behavior'
scanning app around," says Steve Tcherchian, chief product officer and CISO
for XYPRO Technology."

Can you admit you were wrong?

[Joerg Lorenz]

Post by Big Dog

Post by John
Yes and it is why Android is such a clusterfuck of malware.

Android had far less malware than iOS for more than five years in a row.

Burnelli, you are a stupid crétin.

[John]

Post by Big Dog

Post by John
Yes and it is why Android is such a clusterfuck of malware.

Android had far less malware than iOS for more than five years in a row.

LMAO!!

[David E. Ross]

Post by John

Post by Big Dog

Post by John
Yes and it is why Android is such a clusterfuck of malware.

Android had far less malware than iOS for more than five years in a row.

LMAO!!

The Apple crazies believe only Apple's propaganda but they don't realize
iOS has the most exploited security holes for about five years running.

There are so many holes in iOS that the federal government stopped asking
for a back door because iOS is so insecure the front door was already open.

[Alan]

Post by David E. Ross

Post by John

Post by Big Dog

Post by John
Yes and it is why Android is such a clusterfuck of malware.

Android had far less malware than iOS for more than five years in a row.

LMAO!!

The Apple crazies believe only Apple's propaganda but they don't realize
iOS has the most exploited security holes for about five years running.

Proof please.

Post by David E. Ross
There are so many holes in iOS that the federal government stopped asking
for a back door because iOS is so insecure the front door was already open.

Proof please.

[David E. Ross]

Post by Alan

Post by David E. Ross
The Apple crazies believe only Apple's propaganda but they don't realize
iOS has the most exploited security holes for about five years running.

Proof please.

Over the past five years the number of open holes in iOS has been huge.

If you don't believe it, then you look up the number of zero day holes in
iOS (which is a dozen to fifteen a year for five years in a row!) and
compare that to Android which isn't even half of that.

Then look up the exploited holes, and you'll find half the iOS holes are
exploited because it takes Apple so long to get a release out the door.

This is widely known statistics where I'm not your personal secretary.
Either believe what everyone already knows or ignore them.

If you want to dispute stats, go and find your own stats for that since
you're the only one who doesn't know iOS has twice the holes of Android.

[sms]

Post by David E. Ross

Post by Alan

Post by David E. Ross
The Apple crazies believe only Apple's propaganda but they don't realize
iOS has the most exploited security holes for about five years running.

Proof please.

Over the past five years the number of open holes in iOS has been huge.
If you don't believe it, then you look up the number of zero day holes in
iOS (which is a dozen to fifteen a year for five years in a row!) and
compare that to Android which isn't even half of that.
Then look up the exploited holes, and you'll find half the iOS holes are
exploited because it takes Apple so long to get a release out the door.
This is widely known statistics where I'm not your personal secretary.
Either believe what everyone already knows or ignore them.
If you want to dispute stats, go and find your own stats for that since
you're the only one who doesn't know iOS has twice the holes of Android.

All true, but the discussion was not about zero-day exploits it was
about side-loading apps.

[David E. Ross]

Post by sms

Post by David E. Ross
If you want to dispute stats, go and find your own stats for that since
you're the only one who doesn't know iOS has twice the holes of Android.

All true, but the discussion was not about zero-day exploits it was
about side-loading apps.

I know it's true. All you have to do is read the news and they always say
the number of iOS zero day holes are twice that of Android and half of them
are exploited by the time Apple gets around to patching the releases.

I've seen lots of articles about malware on both iOS and Android, where
with iOS there is a lot of web kit malware which affects all web browsers.

That doesn't happen as much on Android because there are at least two
different architectures for web browsing on Android and only 1 on iOS.

Same with malware that affects teh messaging engines, since there is really
only one messenger on iOS but probably fifty to a hundred Android
messengers.

Even though it's easier for malware to attack iOS because of the limitation
in diversity, for total number of malware exploits, I'd bet they're about
the same knowing that it's a whack-a-mole job to find & remove malware.

I don't know if iOS has a built in malware scanner that runs multiple times
every day on the iPhone like the built in Android scanner does. Does it?

[Alan]

Post by David E. Ross

Post by sms

Post by David E. Ross
If you want to dispute stats, go and find your own stats for that since
you're the only one who doesn't know iOS has twice the holes of Android.

All true, but the discussion was not about zero-day exploits it was
about side-loading apps.

I know it's true. All you have to do is read the news and they always say
the number of iOS zero day holes are twice that of Android and half of them
are exploited by the time Apple gets around to patching the releases.

Show me a single case of a news story that says what you just claimed.

[Alan]

Post by David E. Ross

Post by Alan

Post by David E. Ross
The Apple crazies believe only Apple's propaganda but they don't realize
iOS has the most exploited security holes for about five years running.

Proof please.

Over the past five years the number of open holes in iOS has been huge.

That's an "ASSERTION"

Post by David E. Ross
If you don't believe it, then you look up the number of zero day holes in
iOS (which is a dozen to fifteen a year for five years in a row!) and
compare that to Android which isn't even half of that.

No...

...YOU look it up.

You're the one making the claims.

Post by David E. Ross
Then look up the exploited holes, and you'll find half the iOS holes are
exploited because it takes Apple so long to get a release out the door.
This is widely known statistics where I'm not your personal secretary.
Either believe what everyone already knows or ignore them.
If you want to dispute stats, go and find your own stats for that since
you're the only one who doesn't know iOS has twice the holes of Android.

You've presented no stats at all.

[Silvano]

Post by Andy Burnelli
For the permanent Usenet record... and for others to discuss...
*Sideloading is not evil* ...in fact... *sideloading is normal*
Bear in mind on the topic of "sideloading", there is only a single common
consumer operating system that doesn't allow you to go to any developer's
URL pointing to a package to load it. Only iOS. Just iOS. Nobody else.
It needs to be repeated because "sideloading" isn't anything special.
*No other operating system disallows installing a package by URL but iOS*
The reason I make this point is that sideloading isn't something evel; it's
not something risky; it's not something special. It's quite normal.
It's only considered "evil" on one consumer operating system & one alone.
We could go into _why_ Apple considers installing an executable by URL
evil, since it plays into Apple's overall strategy of making money off of
limiting the consumers' choices - but suffice to say sideloading is normal.
*Only in one operating system is installing a non-mothership app evil*

Imagine someone paying good money for linux or windows pro and then they
can only buy all their software from redhat or microsoft & nobody else.

That's ios. One company alone determines ALL your software choices.

Who would put up with that on windows or on linux or on android?

It's no wonder ios has so many software holes compared to android.

[Bob Campbell]

Imagine someone paying good money for linux or windows pro…

Anyone paying for Linux or Windows - with good or bad money - gets what
they deserve.

Operating Systems are free now for consumers. Companies pay for Windows
support and companies pay for Linux support.

No one cares about Operating Systems any more. No one buys any computer
to run an Operating System.

Besides, nearly all computers these days run Unix. Unix runs on everything
from IBM mainframes to Apple watches. All phones. All tablets. Macs.
Linux servers. The entire internet.

The planet runs on Unix. Anyone paying to be stranded on Windows Island is
a fool.

[Cecil Westerhof]

Post by Bob Campbell
No one cares about Operating Systems any more. No one buys any computer
to run an Operating System.

It seems I am no one.

[Alan Browne]

Post by Bob Campbell
Besides, nearly all computers these days run Unix. Unix runs on everything
from IBM mainframes to Apple watches. All phones. All tablets. Macs.
Linux servers. The entire internet.
The planet runs on Unix. Anyone paying to be stranded on Windows Island is
a fool.

The planet runs on Linux. Embedded, database, servers, etc.

Unix ≠ Linux.

Windows isn't going anywhere soon. About 70% of the desktop market.
This is down overall over the years, but it's not tumbling.

While Mac OS enjoyed a rise since about the iPhone era (or the intel
era, pick one), it's pretty much plateau'd out.

Linux saturated in the desktop market a long time ago.

[Andy Burnelli]

and vice versa, many of which are impossible on android because the
hardware and/or software frameworks do not exist.

All you iKooks own the brain of a small child. It's _why_ you're iKooks.
*That statement proves these strange iKooks live in make-believe land*...

Instead of pasting a paragraph filled with Apple branding trademarks,
nospam, and instead of you fabricating imaginary make-believe
functionality, nospam, why can't you post a URL to a _single_ app on the
Apple App Store whose functionality isn't available to Android.

That app needs to work on the iPhone, all by its itty bitty self, in that
it can't require a five thousand dollar mac in order for it to work, not
billions of dollars in iCloud servers for the simple app to work, nospam.

Point to a _single_ app URL on the Apple App Store that *YOU CLAIM* has
basic useful functionality (all by its itty bitty self, nospam), that
Android lacks.
*URL TO APPLE APP STORE APP FROM NOSPAM GOES HERE*

Here, I'll go first: This is free mock gps lockation spoofing...
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.lexa.fakegps>

I'll even do another: This is graphical wi-fi cellular signal strength:
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=make.more.r2d2.cellular_z>

Heck, I'll do one more: This is automatic call recording, nospam:
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.giga_recorderapp.callrecording>

That's three app functionalities, which don't require the entire Internet
and which don't require an expensive desktop to work, nospam.
1. Fake GPS Location Spoofing
2. Cellular/Wi-Fi Graphical Signal-Strength Debugging
3. Automatic Call Recording

Now it's your turn, nospam.
Can you back up your claim or not, nospam.

Show us whether your belief system based on _one_ provable fact, or not.

*Back up your make-believe imaginary belief system with a single URL*.
*ALL WE NEED IS ON URL TO AN APPLE APP STORE APP FROM NOSPAM TO GO HERE*

If you can't find a _single_ app in the entire iOS app store, then that's
proof positive that your belief system is completely imaginary, nospam.

[J]

Post by Andy Burnelli
Bear in mind on the topic of "sideloading", there is only a single common
consumer operating system that doesn't allow you to go to any developer's
URL pointing to a package to load it. Only iOS. Just iOS. Nobody else.

It's quite surprising that in any tech market the most expensive brand
is the least open to interoperability. I guess this unusual behavior
of a luxury brand comes from Steve Jobs singular personality. And
once these control-freak tics get into the corporate culture of a
company is impossible to take them out.

Aside of Apple in the world of tech I don't know any other example of
an expensive posh brand that behaves like that. In the world of
photography, for example, the luxury brand (Leica) is more open than
cheaper brands like Canon or Sony both in terms of software (Leica
uses the open DNG raw format) and in terms of hardware being friendly
to other companies to use their lens mount.

And BTW I am not an Apple hater. I am quite appreciative that they
bring some diversity to the world of desktop computers.

[nospam]

Post by J
It's quite surprising that in any tech market the most expensive brand
is the least open to interoperability. I guess this unusual behavior
of a luxury brand comes from Steve Jobs singular personality. And
once these control-freak tics get into the corporate culture of a
company is impossible to take them out.

look no further than microsoft, who created wma/wmv, .net, active-x and
a host of other proprietary formats solely to lock people in. they're
still doing it, having released a version of windows that *only* allows
app store apps.

installing apps on ios outside of the app store is easy for anyone who
is so inclined. it's a little more than toggling a switch in settings,
but it's not impossible, as the usual trolls try to claim.

Post by J
Aside of Apple in the world of tech I don't know any other example of
an expensive posh brand that behaves like that.

then you haven't looked very hard (or at all).

Post by J
In the world of
photography, for example, the luxury brand (Leica) is more open than
cheaper brands like Canon or Sony both in terms of software (Leica
uses the open DNG raw format) and in terms of hardware being friendly
to other companies to use their lens mount.

third party lens manufacturers (e.g., sigma, tokina, tamron) make
lenses for all of the major brands, including canon, sony, nikon, leica
and others.

also, dng is also not what you think it is, and the various raw formats
are public and supported by a *lot* of software, some of which is open
source.

and as for canon, the ef lens mount was explicitly designed with a
short back-focus so that lenses from other companies could be used with
an adapter.

long ago, there was the pentax m-42 screw mount, which was used on a
wide variety of cameras. however, it was a pain to use and replaced
with the pentax k-mount bayonet, also used on cameras other than
pentax, although not as many as m-42.

Post by J
And BTW I am not an Apple hater. I am quite appreciative that they
bring some diversity to the world of desktop computers.

what (and who) you are is quite obvious.

[Po Lu]

Post by nospam
look no further than microsoft, who created wma/wmv, .net, active-x and
a host of other proprietary formats solely to lock people in. they're
still doing it, having released a version of windows that *only* allows
app store apps.

OK, but then I haven't seen anyone using that version of MS-Windows.

Post by nospam
installing apps on ios outside of the app store is easy for anyone who
is so inclined. it's a little more than toggling a switch in settings,
but it's not impossible, as the usual trolls try to claim.

Would you please explain this procedure?

[Andy Burnelli]

Post by Po Lu

Post by nospam
look no further than microsoft, who created wma/wmv, .net, active-x and
a host of other proprietary formats solely to lock people in. they're
still doing it, having released a version of windows that *only* allows
app store apps.

OK, but then I haven't seen anyone using that version of MS-Windows.

not many do, but it exists.

In other words, nobody uses the version of Windows that nospam pins his
entire argument as to why only iOS advertises sideloading as evil.

It's _always_ the same argument with nospam: *Microsoft made Apple do it.*

The real reason Apple disallows sideloading is to _control_ what users can
do, which is Apple's basic underlying fundamental strategy for iOS IPAs.

Post by Po Lu

Post by nospam
installing apps on ios outside of the app store is easy for anyone who
is so inclined. it's a little more than toggling a switch in settings,
but it's not impossible, as the usual trolls try to claim.

Would you please explain this procedure?

among the various options include enterprise deployment, test flight,
self-signing, xcode, configurator and altstore, all of which do not use
the app store.

In other words, nospam fabricated what he, himself, has never once done.

In summary, nospam is _desperate_ to explain away why only iOS says that
sideloading is evil, when, in fact, every other consumer OS allows it.

Everything bad that Apple does, according to nospam, is always because
Microsoft always makes Apple do all the bad things that Apple did first.

Just watch...

[Heron]

Post by nospam

Post by J
It's quite surprising that in any tech market the most expensive brand
is the least open to interoperability. I guess this unusual behavior
of a luxury brand comes from Steve Jobs singular personality. And
once these control-freak tics get into the corporate culture of a
company is impossible to take them out.

look no further than microsoft,

Are you again saying Microsoft forced Apple to be a closed system with iOS?

[J]

Post by nospam
look no further than microsoft, who created wma/wmv, .net, active-x and
a host of other proprietary formats solely to lock people in. they're
still doing it, having released a version of windows that *only* allows
app store apps.

That is business as usual, because Microsoft is not an expensive
luxury brand. But from a luxury brand like Apple one would not expect
those kind of lockdowns.

Post by nospam
third party lens manufacturers (e.g., sigma, tokina, tamron) make
lenses for all of the major brands, including canon, sony, nikon, leica
and others.

Canon is not friendly for 3rd party lenses. Sigma had to reverse
engineer their EF mount, which became problematic around 2004 when Canon
made small changes to the EF mount electronics, rendering many Sigma EF
useless on newer bodies, i.e. a Sigma lens would work on the Canon
1Ds, but not on the 1Ds mk II. Leica bodies never had those issues.

https://www.ephotozine.com/forums/topic/sigma-lenses-and-canon-10d-compatability-problems--11172

https://www.canonrumors.com/forum/threads/don%E2%80%99t-expect-any-third-party-autofocus-lenses-in-the-near-future.41704/page-15

Post by nospam
also, dng is also not what you think it is, and the various raw formats
are public and supported by a *lot* of software, some of which is open
source.

Yes, those raw formats are supported by a lot of programs, but in many
cases the formats are not officially documented. DNG might not be
perfect, but it is the closest you can get to an open standard for RAW
files.

[nospam]

Post by J

Post by nospam
look no further than microsoft, who created wma/wmv, .net, active-x and
a host of other proprietary formats solely to lock people in. they're
still doing it, having released a version of windows that *only* allows
app store apps.

That is business as usual, because Microsoft is not an expensive
luxury brand. But from a luxury brand like Apple one would not expect
those kind of lockdowns.

apple is not a luxury brand.

Post by J

Post by nospam
third party lens manufacturers (e.g., sigma, tokina, tamron) make
lenses for all of the major brands, including canon, sony, nikon, leica
and others.

Canon is not friendly for 3rd party lenses. Sigma had to reverse
engineer their EF mount, which became problematic around 2004 when Canon
made small changes to the EF mount electronics, rendering many Sigma EF
useless on newer bodies, i.e. a Sigma lens would work on the Canon
1Ds, but not on the 1Ds mk II.

that's the problem with reverse engineering. sigma could have licensed
it, but they didn't.

sigma lenses have all sorts of compatibility problems with many
different cameras. sigma is short for 'significant malfunction'.

Post by J
Leica bodies never had those issues.

that's because leica is now part of the sigma/panasonic/leica alliance
for the l-mount.

pretending that the current leica cameras are comparable to the leica
of old is highly disingenuous.

Post by J

Post by nospam
also, dng is also not what you think it is, and the various raw formats
are public and supported by a *lot* of software, some of which is open
source.

Yes, those raw formats are supported by a lot of programs, but in many
cases the formats are not officially documented.

not many, and only very specific things that are entirely unimportant
to the image itself, which are *not* included in dng (along with a lot
more).

Post by J
DNG might not be
perfect, but it is the closest you can get to an open standard for RAW
files.

then you'll be happy to know that iphones save photos in dng:

<https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT211965>
ProRAW uses the industry standard digital negative (DNG) file format,
so you can open ProRAW files with apps that are compatible with DNG
files.

it's not often a troll attempt backfires as spectacularly as yours.

[J]

Post by nospam

Post by J
DNG might not be
perfect, but it is the closest you can get to an open standard for RAW
files.

<https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT211965>
ProRAW uses the industry standard digital negative (DNG) file format,
so you can open ProRAW files with apps that are compatible with DNG
files.

That's exactly what I would expect to get when buying the most
expensive smartphone in the market from a posh luxury brand.

Why don't they apply the same philosophy of interoperability to sideloading?

[Alan]

Post by J

Post by nospam

Post by J
DNG might not be
perfect, but it is the closest you can get to an open standard for RAW
files.

<https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT211965>
ProRAW uses the industry standard digital negative (DNG) file format,
so you can open ProRAW files with apps that are compatible with DNG
files.

That's exactly what I would expect to get when buying the most
expensive smartphone in the market from a posh luxury brand.
Why don't they apply the same philosophy of interoperability to sideloading?

Because sideloading opens huge holes for malware.

[Minoru Osaka]

Post by Alan

Post by J
Why don't they apply the same philosophy of interoperability to sideloading?

Because sideloading opens huge holes for malware.

Explain why it's normal for every operating system to allow users to load
software from wherever they want to get it from (mac, linux, windows,
android) except for only one operating system where it's suddenly risky?

Why is it only ios that has a huge malware problem from sideloading apps?

[Alan]

Post by Minoru Osaka

Post by Alan

Post by J
Why don't they apply the same philosophy of interoperability to sideloading?

Because sideloading opens huge holes for malware.

Explain why it's normal for every operating system to allow users to load
software from wherever they want to get it from (mac, linux, windows,
android) except for only one operating system where it's suddenly risky?

It's risky anywhere.

Post by Minoru Osaka
Why is it only ios that has a huge malware problem from sideloading apps?

False assumption.

[Andy Burnelli]

I don't use Chrome as an operating system so may I ask if Chrome also
limits the applications that are available to you

Yup. To the Play Store.

Chrome uses the exact same debilitating crippling concept that iOS uses.
The problem with that is the best apps are NOT in the Play Store, IMHO.

For example, Chrome and iOS share the same crippling of apps, where the
_best_ apps on the planet will _never_ be offered to the users, such as:

*NewPipe* by Schabi (FOSS YouTube client)
<https://newpipe.net/>

And is that approved subset missing huge functional areas

Dunno. I haven't tried all the millions of apps available yet.

Chrome uses the exact same debilitating crippling concept that iOS uses.

Try to find the official Tor Browser, or, oh, say, Ungoogled Chromium:
*Ungoogled Chromium*
<https://github.com/ungoogled-software/ungoogled-chromium-android>

*Bromite*
<https://www.bromite.org/>
<https://github.com/bromite/bromite>

They do that to restrict your choice - which is fine if you're that type of
person who wants a mothership to lock you inside a prison on your device.

If Chrome is also lacking in functional apps, what good is it as an OS?

The only apps I've found Chrome lacking in so far is Usenet newsreaders.
This one sucks and it's the best I've found so far. But for the average Joe
the OS likely performs just fine...]

Chrome uses the exact same debilitating crippling concept that iOS uses.
If you've only found one functionality lacking, that simply means you're
like most iOS and Chrome users (they're essentially the same thing).

Most iOS users only play games on their iPhones.
Zero iOS users do wireless debugging, for example.

Given both iOS and Chrome are toy operating systems, for the type of person
who only play games & makes phone calls, those operating systems work fine.

But you can't expect toy operating systems such as iOS & Chrome to do
actual technical work such as spoofing the location, using alternative app
stores, wireless and cellular debugging, automatic call recording, etc.

In summary, both Chrome & iOS use the same debilitating crippling of apps.
Developers are NOT ALLOWED to provide the user the apps they might want.

That's horrible.
But for a Chrome and iOS user, that's NOT horrible.

They actually like being crippled.
Makes no sense to me - but iOS users and Chrome users exist.

So being crippled makes sense... to iOS & to Chrome users.
A crippled device makes them feel safe.

And that's OK.

As long as they comprehend that Chrome & iOS can't do real work.
But not being able to do anything, makes Chrome & iOS users feel safe.

And again, that's OK.
Chrome/iOS users feel safe because the operating system is crippled.

*The crippling of the device... is literally what makes them feel safe.*

Most people on both Chrome & iOS are _afraid_ of the device, so it works
for them; but locking everyone in these choice-restricted prisons isn't for
those people who use the device as something other than to just play games.

[J]

Post by Alan

Post by J
Why don't they apply the same philosophy of interoperability to sideloading?

Because sideloading opens huge holes for malware.

I would expect those security holes from some cheap OS like Android or
the now defunct Windows Phones by MS/Nokia. But Apple iOS? They are
the most expensive brand and have full control of the design of their OS.
They should have some sandboxing for apps.

[nospam]

Post by J
They should have some sandboxing for apps.

they do.

[Andy Burnelli]

Post by J

Post by Alan

Post by J
Why don't they apply the same philosophy of interoperability to sideloading?

Because sideloading opens huge holes for malware.

I would expect those security holes from some cheap OS like Android or
the now defunct Windows Phones by MS/Nokia. But Apple iOS? They are
the most expensive brand and have full control of the design of their OS.
They should have some sandboxing for apps.

I'm not sure if you're being facetious, but there is only one reason for
the fact that iOS is severely crippled to the point it can't install IPAs
from anywhere or anyone that Apple doesn't allow.

Just like there is only one reason each IPA you install gets a _unique_
identifier that Apple inserts based on your mothership tracking account.

And it's not malware.

Doesn't it ever occur to the iKooks that only iOS (not even macOS) is so
crippled in almost every way possible that it can't do the simplest things?

Like load software from anywhere (which Linux, Windows, macOS & Android do)
and like NOT having a unique tracker inserted into every app you install.

Only iOS does that.

It doesn't occur to you why Apple is incapable of designing an OS with
choicez like _all_ the other common consumer operating systems enjoy?

[Jolly Roger]

Post by J

Post by Alan

Post by J
Why don't they apply the same philosophy of interoperability to sideloading?

Because sideloading opens huge holes for malware.

I would expect those security holes from some cheap OS like Android or
the now defunct Windows Phones by MS/Nokia. But Apple iOS? They are
the most expensive brand and have full control of the design of their
OS. They should have some sandboxing for apps.

They do have sandboxing, *and* they have less malware than Android.
It's almost as if Apple's strategy is working. Huh...

[Heron]

Post by Jolly Roger
They do have sandboxing, *and* they have less malware than Android.
It's almost as if Apple's strategy is working. Huh...

How is it "working" when every other operating system doesn't need to limit
people's choice to almost nothing in terms of apps... just to keep the user
base from malware (which linux, android & windows do quite well lately).

That's not iOS working.
That's iOS being broken.

You have to give up almost all choice with iOS but not with the others.

[nospam]

Post by Heron

Post by Jolly Roger
They do have sandboxing, *and* they have less malware than Android.
It's almost as if Apple's strategy is working. Huh...

How is it "working" when every other operating system doesn't need to limit
people's choice to almost nothing in terms of apps...

more than 2 million apps is not 'almost nothing'.

Post by Heron
just to keep the user
base from malware (which linux, android & windows do quite well lately).

the numbers show the opposite.

the nokia threat report (posted yesterday) showed that android had over
50% of malware, windows in second place at 23%, both well above ios
which was lumped into 'other' at 3.73%.

[Heron]

Post by nospam

Post by Heron
How is it "working" when every other operating system doesn't need to limit
people's choice to almost nothing in terms of apps...

more than 2 million apps is not 'almost nothing'.

You know nothing about iOS if you don't know how limited iOS app choice is
compared to the vast choice of Android which includes not only the Google
Play Store (which has far more variety than iOS has) but also sideloading.

Post by nospam

Post by Heron
just to keep the user
base from malware (which linux, android & windows do quite well lately).

the numbers show the opposite.
the nokia threat report (posted yesterday) showed that android had over
50% of malware, windows in second place at 23%, both well above ios
which was lumped into 'other' at 3.73%.

Nokia didn't cause Apple to limit the type of iOS apps that are available.

If people want an app then a developer wrote it & it's for them on Android.
If Apple doesn't like it - it's not a choice on iOS even if people want it.

[Alan]

Post by Heron

Post by nospam

Post by Heron
How is it "working" when every other operating system doesn't need to limit
people's choice to almost nothing in terms of apps...

more than 2 million apps is not 'almost nothing'.

You know nothing about iOS if you don't know how limited iOS app choice is
compared to the vast choice of Android which includes not only the Google
Play Store (which has far more variety than iOS has) but also sideloading.

Post by nospam

Post by Heron
just to keep the user
base from malware (which linux, android & windows do quite well lately).

the numbers show the opposite.
the nokia threat report (posted yesterday) showed that android had over
50% of malware, windows in second place at 23%, both well above ios
which was lumped into 'other' at 3.73%.

Nokia didn't cause Apple to limit the type of iOS apps that are available.
If people want an app then a developer wrote it & it's for them on Android.
If Apple doesn't like it - it's not a choice on iOS even if people want it.

That's called differing priorities.

[Jolly Roger]

Post by Heron

Post by nospam

Post by Heron
How is it "working" when every other operating system doesn't need
to limit people's choice to almost nothing in terms of apps...

more than 2 million apps is not 'almost nothing'.

You know nothing about iOS

Projection. Your inability to acknowledge that billions of people are
doing a whole lot more than "almost nothing" with their Apple devices is
proof that it is *you* who know nothing about iOS.

Post by Heron

Post by nospam

Post by Heron
just to keep the user base from malware (which linux, android &
windows do quite well lately).

They do nowhere near as well as iOS, which is the point.

Post by Heron

Post by nospam
the numbers show the opposite. the nokia threat report (posted
yesterday) showed that android had over 50% of malware, windows in
second place at 23%, both well above ios which was lumped into
'other' at 3.73%.

Nokia didn't cause Apple to limit the type of iOS apps that are available.

Have you always had a hard time with reading comprehension, or is this a
new issue for you?

[Heron]

Post by Jolly Roger
Projection. Your inability to acknowledge that billions of people are
doing a whole lot more than "almost nothing" with their Apple devices is
proof that it is *you* who know nothing about iOS.

What's clear is only the iOS users trade all their choices to live without
benefit of useful software simply because they're afraid of their iPhone.

[Ken Blake]

Post by Jolly Roger

Post by Heron

Post by nospam

Post by Heron
How is it "working" when every other operating system doesn't need
to limit people's choice to almost nothing in terms of apps...

more than 2 million apps is not 'almost nothing'.

You know nothing about iOS

Projection. Your inability to acknowledge that billions of people are
doing a whole lot more than "almost nothing" with their Apple devices is
proof that it is *you* who know nothing about iOS.

I don't know what he and you know about iOS, but I know that I know
nothing about it. And I don't want to know any more about it, so if
you want to continue this sub-thread (and especially your arguing), I
would appreciate it if you would both remove comp.mobile.android from
your posts.

[Andy Burnelli]

And I wasn't "complaining"about anything. I was simply asking if you
wanted to argue with him, don't continue to post your arguments about
iOS to comp.mobile.android. I'm not interested in reading arguments,
and I'm not interested in reading anything about iOS.

1. Sideloading is not evil - it's what every operating system does.
Except iOS.

2. Ken Blake knows absolutely nothing about iOS or Android.
Worse - Ken Blake can't ever talk about the topic.

3. Jolly Roger and Ken Blake can't talk about the topic.
They both know absolutely nothing about the topic.

Neither Jolly Roger nor Ken Blake added _any_ topical value.
Neither Ken nor Jolly Roger even _understand_ the sideloading topic.

Yet, they post...
So who is the troll...

[Jolly Roger]

Post by Heron

Post by Jolly Roger
They do have sandboxing, *and* they have less malware than Android.
It's almost as if Apple's strategy is working. Huh...

How is it "working"

It's working just fine. iPhones sell like hotcakes because people love
them and find them useful, and malware isn't anywhere as big of an issue
with iOS devices compared to Android devices.

Post by Heron
You have to give up almost all choice with iOS but not with the others.

More nonsense from Arlen.

[Heron]

Post by Jolly Roger
It's working just fine. iPhones sell like hotcakes because people love
them and find them useful, and malware isn't anywhere as big of an issue
with iOS devices compared to Android devices.

What's funny is only the iOS users trade all their choices to live without
the use of useful software simply because they're afraid of their iPhone.

Nobody on android or linux or windows is so afraid of their computer that
they willfully give up on any freedom of choice to select their own apps.

Just iPhone owners are afraid of having any choices. Nobody else.

[Alan]

Post by Heron

Post by Jolly Roger
It's working just fine. iPhones sell like hotcakes because people love
them and find them useful, and malware isn't anywhere as big of an issue
with iOS devices compared to Android devices.

What's funny is only the iOS users trade all their choices to live without
the use of useful software simply because they're afraid of their iPhone.
Nobody on android or linux or windows is so afraid of their computer that
they willfully give up on any freedom of choice to select their own apps.
Just iPhone owners are afraid of having any choices. Nobody else.

Arlen... ...stop making new nyms.

[Bob Campbell]

Post by Alan
Arlen... ...stop making new nyms.

Arlen will never stop making new nyms. He thinks it helps his cause when
“lots of people agree with me”.

Its just more childish nonsense from the iTroll Kiddie.

[Ken Blake]

Post by Alan

Post by Heron

Post by Jolly Roger
It's working just fine. iPhones sell like hotcakes because people love
them and find them useful, and malware isn't anywhere as big of an issue
with iOS devices compared to Android devices.

What's funny is only the iOS users trade all their choices to live without
the use of useful software simply because they're afraid of their iPhone.
Nobody on android or linux or windows is so afraid of their computer that
they willfully give up on any freedom of choice to select their own apps.
Just iPhone owners are afraid of having any choices. Nobody else.

Arlen... ...stop making new nyms.

Yes, you made a great post! Always tell trolls what to do, because
they always do whatever they are told to do,

More seriously, please do *not* reply to trolls. Doing so does nothing
but clutter up the newsgroup.

[Alan Browne]

Post by Ken Blake
More seriously, please do *not* reply to trolls. Doing so does nothing
but clutter up the newsgroup.

+1

[nospam]

Post by J

Post by nospam

Post by J
DNG might not be
perfect, but it is the closest you can get to an open standard for RAW
files.

<https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT211965>
ProRAW uses the industry standard digital negative (DNG) file format,
so you can open ProRAW files with apps that are compatible with DNG
files.

That's exactly what I would expect to get when buying the most
expensive smartphone in the market from a posh luxury brand.

it's not the most expensive smartphone in the market nor is it a posh
luxury brand.

these are luxury brands:
<https://www.vertu.com/collections/mobile>
<http://www.goldvish.com/collection-1>

[J]

Post by nospam
it's not the most expensive smartphone in the market nor is it a posh
luxury brand.
<https://www.vertu.com/collections/mobile>
<http://www.goldvish.com/collection-1>

Apple does have some expensive limited edition phones

https://www.gizmochina.com/2022/11/04/apple-iphone-14-pro-max-130k-dollars/

Although that doesn't happen very often. The Apple management is too
obsessed with control, and that makes them lose the opportunity for
partnerships with other companies.

[nospam]

Post by J

Post by nospam
it's not the most expensive smartphone in the market nor is it a posh
luxury brand.
<https://www.vertu.com/collections/mobile>
<http://www.goldvish.com/collection-1>

Apple does have some expensive limited edition phones
https://www.gizmochina.com/2022/11/04/apple-iphone-14-pro-max-130k-dollars/

try reading it first.

that's *not* from apple. it's a customized phone from *another* company.

A new version of the Cupertino based giant¹s iPhone 14 Pro Max was
made by Caviar and it has a Rolex Daytona Watch on the rear.

Post by J
Although that doesn't happen very often. The Apple management is too
obsessed with control, and that makes them lose the opportunity for
partnerships with other companies.

false.

[Ken Blake]

Post by nospam

Post by J

Post by nospam

Post by J
DNG might not be
perfect, but it is the closest you can get to an open standard for RAW
files.

<https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT211965>
ProRAW uses the industry standard digital negative (DNG) file format,
so you can open ProRAW files with apps that are compatible with DNG
files.

That's exactly what I would expect to get when buying the most
expensive smartphone in the market from a posh luxury brand.

it's not the most expensive smartphone in the market nor is it a posh
luxury brand.
<https://www.vertu.com/collections/mobile>
<http://www.goldvish.com/collection-1>

Wow! I had no idea that there were any anywhere near that expensive.

[nospam]

Post by Ken Blake

Post by nospam
<https://www.vertu.com/collections/mobile>
<http://www.goldvish.com/collection-1>

Wow! I had no idea that there were any anywhere near that expensive.

they're customized with lots of diamonds and gold, for people who have
more money than they know what to do with.

[Ken Blake]

Post by nospam

Post by Ken Blake

Post by nospam
<https://www.vertu.com/collections/mobile>
<http://www.goldvish.com/collection-1>

Wow! I had no idea that there were any anywhere near that expensive.

they're customized with lots of diamonds and gold, for people who have
more money than they know what to do with.

That lets me out. <G>

[Andy Burnelli]

Post by J

Post by Andy Burnelli
Bear in mind on the topic of "sideloading", there is only a single common
consumer operating system that doesn't allow you to go to any developer's
URL pointing to a package to load it. Only iOS. Just iOS. Nobody else.

It's quite surprising that in any tech market the most expensive brand
is the least open to interoperability.

Bear in mind most of the iKooks are not educated so they don't know this.
1. Sideloading is what _every_ operating system does...
2. Except for iOS

No iKook is aware of the fact malware is NOT rampant on iOS or Android.
A. The reason is that Android scans _every_ install & scans every day
B. In fact, the Android scan is, apparently, far better than with iOS

*It's only Apple who has "demonized" what _every_ other platform does.*

The _reason_ Apple demonized what iOS can't do, and what _every_ other
platform easily does - is Apple needs to _control_ every aspect of iOS.

For profit.

Apple is no different than tobacco or soda conglomerates in that Apple
isn't a creator of content so much as a brilliant MARKETING outfit.

Knowing that Apple's R&D spend is the lowest, for decades, of _any_ similar
high tech company, and knowing how great Apple marketing is, is evidence.

However, what really matters is Apple's ungodly profit margins per device.
You can't make those ungodly profit margins off an intelligent customer.

Right?

Post by J
I guess this unusual behavior
of a luxury brand comes from Steve Jobs singular personality. And
once these control-freak tics get into the corporate culture of a
company is impossible to take them out.

When you analyze how Apple attains those ungodly profit margins per device,
you find out that Apple _controls_ every aspect of the iPhone to do that.

There's a reason the iPhone lacks basic functionality such as the portable
storage, the extension jack, the ability to load any software, etc.

It's clear to intelligent people Apple's basic strategy is to slowly
"decontent" the iPhone so that people have to scramble to get stuff back.

And when people scramble to get back, oh, say, the loss of the charger,
Apple wins in that Apple can better _control_ where the money goes.

Post by J
Aside of Apple in the world of tech I don't know any other example of
an expensive posh brand that behaves like that.

Apple likely spends orders of magnitude more in MARKETING their product
(just like tobacco and soda companies do) than in designing the product.

Remember, nobody is anywhere near as low as Apple in R&D spend. Bar none.
*Does it surprise you Apple spends less in R&D than anyone in high tech?*
<https://groups.google.com/g/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/c/STrAkx09VYk/>

Post by J
In the world of
photography, for example, the luxury brand (Leica) is more open than
cheaper brands like Canon or Sony both in terms of software (Leica
uses the open DNG raw format) and in terms of hardware being friendly
to other companies to use their lens mount.

Apple's strategy is obvious to all who are intelligent enough to see it.

Inexorably, Apple decontents the iPhone, providing myriad excuses for what
is always the same strategy, so people are forced to buy that content back.

And in doing so, Apple can further _control_ where the money goes for it.

Post by J
And BTW I am not an Apple hater. I am quite appreciative that they
bring some diversity to the world of desktop computers.

Me neither. I'd say the same thing about Google or Microsoft or Canonical.
And I do on the adult common operating system Usenet newsgroups.

It's only on the child-like operating system newsgroups where you're not
allowed to say anything truthful about their revered God, Mohammad [sic].

In summary, the reason Apple is so profitable is not that Apple spends a
dime in actual R&D but that Apple spends all its money in stellar
marketing... no different than the major tobacco or soda companies do.

[Jason H]

Post by Andy Burnelli
For the permanent Usenet record... and for others to discuss...
  *Sideloading is not evil* ...in fact... *sideloading is normal*
Bear in mind on the topic of "sideloading", there is only a single
common consumer operating system that doesn't allow you to go to any
developer's URL pointing to a package to load it. Only iOS. Just iOS.
Nobody else.
It needs to be repeated because "sideloading" isn't anything special.
*No other operating system disallows installing a package by URL but iOS*
The reason I make this point is that sideloading isn't something evel;
it's not something risky; it's not something special. It's quite normal.
It's only considered "evil" on one consumer operating system & one alone.
We could go into _why_ Apple considers installing an executable by URL
evil, since it plays into Apple's overall strategy of making money off
of limiting the consumers' choices - but suffice to say sideloading is
normal.
 *Only in one operating system is installing a non-mothership app evil*

Nevertheless, it's not something I'd recommend for most peeps. There
are few apps that people need that cannot be found in Google Play or iOS
App store. I think the last app I had to sideload was Didi Chuxing a
few years back (sometime it just happens - you need a ride in Shanghai).

That said, if you need it you need it and that a big plus for Android.