OT: My racing...

[Alan Baker]

I know a great many of you trolls and fanboys seem to take quite an
interest in who's racing and who is not and how we might be doing.

I just thought you'd like the update that the first race weekend of the
year was terrific. There may be others whose cars are supposedly
"bwoke", but mine is running great. I'm running the full tail bodywork
this year, having solved the issue of how to mount the exhaust with it
in place (the previous owner didn't use the two rear bodywork pieces
because he was running autocross where the aerodynamic advantage would
be close to nil you see) and I can tell it's making a difference down
the straights; that and my new engine. Between the two of them, I may
just have to install a slightly taller 4th gear.

One third, one second and one fourth place for the weekend. I'm still a
little slower than the top two guys, but I'll get there. :-)

I'll post links to YouTube as soon as I've d'loaded the video from my
GoPro cameras (front and rear this year).

[Thomas E.]

Post by Alan Baker
I know a great many of you trolls and fanboys seem to take quite an
interest in who's racing and who is not and how we might be doing.
I just thought you'd like the update that the first race weekend of the
year was terrific. There may be others whose cars are supposedly
"bwoke", but mine is running great. I'm running the full tail bodywork
this year, having solved the issue of how to mount the exhaust with it
in place (the previous owner didn't use the two rear bodywork pieces
because he was running autocross where the aerodynamic advantage would
be close to nil you see) and I can tell it's making a difference down
the straights; that and my new engine. Between the two of them, I may
just have to install a slightly taller 4th gear.
One third, one second and one fourth place for the weekend. I'm still a
little slower than the top two guys, but I'll get there. :-)
I'll post links to YouTube as soon as I've d'loaded the video from my
GoPro cameras (front and rear this year).

Narcissist

[-hh]

Post by Thomas E.
Narcissist

Jealous Narcissit ;-)


-hh

[Thomas E.]

Post by -hh

Post by Thomas E.
Narcissist

Jealous Narcissit ;-)
-hh

Ha. My addiction is airplanes. Been flying them for 48+ years. I am now in a place where I can fly 3-5 hours on just about any day I want to. I also just passed an instrument proficiency check with flying colors, and have a medical with no restrictions. I absolutely love flying, and have nothing to be jealous about. Go play with your little ground-pounding toys while I fly over you and thumb my nose.

[Alan Baker]

Post by Thomas E.

Post by -hh

Post by Thomas E.
Narcissist

Jealous Narcissit ;-)
-hh

Ha. My addiction is airplanes. Been flying them for 48+ years. I am now
in a place where I can fly 3-5 hours on just about any day I want to. I
also just passed an instrument proficiency check with flying colors,
and have a medical with no restrictions. I absolutely love flying, and
have nothing to be jealous about. Go play with your little
ground-pounding toys while I fly over you and thumb my nose.

I've done flying.

It is nothing compared to auto racing.

Done properly, flying requires exacting concentration for a very small
fraction of the time. Done properly, road racing requires your exacting
concentration for all BUT a small fraction of your time.

Yes: when you're on the straight, you can take a bit of a breath and
read the gauges and reset your grip on the wheel...

...if no one is following too closely...

...and if you're not following someone else closely...

...and if there's no slower traffic to pass...

...and no faster traffic passing you.

:-)

[Thomas E.]

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by -hh

Post by Thomas E.
Narcissist

Jealous Narcissit ;-)
-hh

Ha. My addiction is airplanes. Been flying them for 48+ years. I am now
in a place where I can fly 3-5 hours on just about any day I want to. I
also just passed an instrument proficiency check with flying colors,
and have a medical with no restrictions. I absolutely love flying, and
have nothing to be jealous about. Go play with your little
ground-pounding toys while I fly over you and thumb my nose.

I've done flying.
It is nothing compared to auto racing.
Done properly, flying requires exacting concentration for a very small
fraction of the time. Done properly, road racing requires your exacting
concentration for all BUT a small fraction of your time.
Yes: when you're on the straight, you can take a bit of a breath and
read the gauges and reset your grip on the wheel...
...if no one is following too closely...
...and if you're not following someone else closely...
...and if there's no slower traffic to pass...
...and no faster traffic passing you.
:-)

It's different, but did you ever do any bad weather flying?

I tried driving a NASCAR car at a driving school. It was fun, but not as satisfying as the mental challenge of an IFR flight.

[Alan Baker]

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by -hh

Post by Thomas E.
Narcissist

Jealous Narcissit ;-)
-hh

Ha. My addiction is airplanes. Been flying them for 48+ years. I am now
in a place where I can fly 3-5 hours on just about any day I want to. I
also just passed an instrument proficiency check with flying colors,
and have a medical with no restrictions. I absolutely love flying, and
have nothing to be jealous about. Go play with your little
ground-pounding toys while I fly over you and thumb my nose.

I've done flying.
It is nothing compared to auto racing.
Done properly, flying requires exacting concentration for a very small
fraction of the time. Done properly, road racing requires your exacting
concentration for all BUT a small fraction of your time.
Yes: when you're on the straight, you can take a bit of a breath and
read the gauges and reset your grip on the wheel...
...if no one is following too closely...
...and if you're not following someone else closely...
...and if there's no slower traffic to pass...
...and no faster traffic passing you.
:-)

It's different, but did you ever do any bad weather flying?

Nope.

But then, there's that saying, isn't there:

Better to be on the ground wishing you were in the air...

Post by Thomas E.
I tried driving a NASCAR car at a driving school. It was fun, but not
as satisfying as the mental challenge of an IFR flight.

What "driving school" was this? And was it at an oval; a banked oval?

That is perhaps the WORST way to experience the continuous mental
challenge that is driving a race car at speed.

[Thomas E.]

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by -hh

Post by Thomas E.
Narcissist

Jealous Narcissit ;-)
-hh

Ha. My addiction is airplanes. Been flying them for 48+ years. I am now
in a place where I can fly 3-5 hours on just about any day I want to. I
also just passed an instrument proficiency check with flying colors,
and have a medical with no restrictions. I absolutely love flying, and
have nothing to be jealous about. Go play with your little
ground-pounding toys while I fly over you and thumb my nose.

I've done flying.
It is nothing compared to auto racing.
Done properly, flying requires exacting concentration for a very small
fraction of the time. Done properly, road racing requires your exacting
concentration for all BUT a small fraction of your time.
Yes: when you're on the straight, you can take a bit of a breath and
read the gauges and reset your grip on the wheel...
...if no one is following too closely...
...and if you're not following someone else closely...
...and if there's no slower traffic to pass...
...and no faster traffic passing you.
:-)

It's different, but did you ever do any bad weather flying?

Nope.
Better to be on the ground wishing you were in the air...

Post by Thomas E.
I tried driving a NASCAR car at a driving school. It was fun, but not
as satisfying as the mental challenge of an IFR flight.

What "driving school" was this? And was it at an oval; a banked oval?

It was on an oval, driving solo, in a modified, in traffic. I can see the thrill. I have also had some go-kart race and drag race adventures.

Post by Alan Baker
That is perhaps the WORST way to experience the continuous mental
challenge that is driving a race car at speed.

Sort of like taking a blue slope as fast as you can go on a weekend at Vail. Talk about a "continuous mental challenge!" That's fun too. Can't wait to get back there next February. Already have my Epic bought and 3 weeks of condo time paid for.

[Walter Myer]

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by -hh

Post by Thomas E.
Narcissist

Jealous Narcissit ;-)
-hh

Ha. My addiction is airplanes. Been flying them for 48+ years. I am now
in a place where I can fly 3-5 hours on just about any day I want to. I
also just passed an instrument proficiency check with flying colors,
and have a medical with no restrictions. I absolutely love flying, and
have nothing to be jealous about. Go play with your little
ground-pounding toys while I fly over you and thumb my nose.

I've done flying.
It is nothing compared to auto racing.
Done properly, flying requires exacting concentration for a very small
fraction of the time. Done properly, road racing requires your exacting
concentration for all BUT a small fraction of your time.
Yes: when you're on the straight, you can take a bit of a breath and
read the gauges and reset your grip on the wheel...
...if no one is following too closely...
...and if you're not following someone else closely...
...and if there's no slower traffic to pass...
...and no faster traffic passing you.
:-)

It's different, but did you ever do any bad weather flying?

Nope.
Better to be on the ground wishing you were in the air...

Post by Thomas E.
I tried driving a NASCAR car at a driving school. It was fun, but not
as satisfying as the mental challenge of an IFR flight.

What "driving school" was this? And was it at an oval; a banked oval?

It was on an oval, driving solo, in a modified, in traffic. I can see the thrill. I have also had some go-kart race and drag race adventures.

Did you know that go karts can go faster than IT'S "wace car"?

IT'S 'Wace car can do about 130 mph, a competition go kart can go around 160 mph.

130 mph......fast....for pussies.

[Alan Baker]

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by -hh

Post by Thomas E.
Narcissist

Jealous Narcissit ;-)
-hh

Ha. My addiction is airplanes. Been flying them for 48+ years. I am now
in a place where I can fly 3-5 hours on just about any day I want to. I
also just passed an instrument proficiency check with flying colors,
and have a medical with no restrictions. I absolutely love flying, and
have nothing to be jealous about. Go play with your little
ground-pounding toys while I fly over you and thumb my nose.

I've done flying.
It is nothing compared to auto racing.
Done properly, flying requires exacting concentration for a very small
fraction of the time. Done properly, road racing requires your exacting
concentration for all BUT a small fraction of your time.
Yes: when you're on the straight, you can take a bit of a breath and
read the gauges and reset your grip on the wheel...
...if no one is following too closely...
...and if you're not following someone else closely...
...and if there's no slower traffic to pass...
...and no faster traffic passing you.
:-)

It's different, but did you ever do any bad weather flying?

Nope.
Better to be on the ground wishing you were in the air...

Post by Thomas E.
I tried driving a NASCAR car at a driving school. It was fun, but not
as satisfying as the mental challenge of an IFR flight.

What "driving school" was this? And was it at an oval; a banked oval?

It was on an oval, driving solo, in a modified, in traffic. I can see
the thrill. I have also had some go-kart race and drag race adventures.

Did you know that go karts can go faster than IT'S "wace car"?

Some go-karts are very fast, no doubt about it.

Post by Walter Myer
IT'S 'Wace car can do about 130 mph, a competition go kart can go around 160 mph.
130 mph......fast....for pussies.

LOL!

[Alan Baker]

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by -hh

Post by Thomas E.
Narcissist

Jealous Narcissit ;-)
-hh

Ha. My addiction is airplanes. Been flying them for 48+ years. I am now
in a place where I can fly 3-5 hours on just about any day I want to. I
also just passed an instrument proficiency check with flying colors,
and have a medical with no restrictions. I absolutely love flying, and
have nothing to be jealous about. Go play with your little
ground-pounding toys while I fly over you and thumb my nose.

I've done flying.
It is nothing compared to auto racing.
Done properly, flying requires exacting concentration for a very small
fraction of the time. Done properly, road racing requires your exacting
concentration for all BUT a small fraction of your time.
Yes: when you're on the straight, you can take a bit of a breath and
read the gauges and reset your grip on the wheel...
...if no one is following too closely...
...and if you're not following someone else closely...
...and if there's no slower traffic to pass...
...and no faster traffic passing you.
:-)

It's different, but did you ever do any bad weather flying?

Nope.
Better to be on the ground wishing you were in the air...

Post by Thomas E.
I tried driving a NASCAR car at a driving school. It was fun, but not
as satisfying as the mental challenge of an IFR flight.

What "driving school" was this? And was it at an oval; a banked oval?

It was on an oval, driving solo, in a modified, in traffic. I can see
the thrill. I have also had some go-kart race and drag race adventures.

I'm happy for you. But if it's left you with the impression that you
are experiencing a continuous mental challenge when you're road racing,
then you haven't really pushed yourself at all.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker
That is perhaps the WORST way to experience the continuous mental
challenge that is driving a race car at speed.

Sort of like taking a blue slope as fast as you can go on a weekend at Vail.

I pretty much do that all the time; well... ...at Whistler-Blackcomb,
but still. :-)

Post by Thomas E.
Talk about a "continuous mental challenge!" That's fun too. Can't wait
to get back there next February. Already have my Epic bought and 3
weeks of condo time paid for.

I've still got 4 days on my Whistler-Blackcomb "Edge" card. The
conditions this year were terrible (plus I've got to get one of my
boots blown out around a new bone spur).

[Thomas E.]

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by -hh

Post by Thomas E.
Narcissist

Jealous Narcissit ;-)
-hh

Ha. My addiction is airplanes. Been flying them for 48+ years. I am now
in a place where I can fly 3-5 hours on just about any day I want to. I
also just passed an instrument proficiency check with flying colors,
and have a medical with no restrictions. I absolutely love flying, and
have nothing to be jealous about. Go play with your little
ground-pounding toys while I fly over you and thumb my nose.

I've done flying.
It is nothing compared to auto racing.
Done properly, flying requires exacting concentration for a very small
fraction of the time. Done properly, road racing requires your exacting
concentration for all BUT a small fraction of your time.
Yes: when you're on the straight, you can take a bit of a breath and
read the gauges and reset your grip on the wheel...
...if no one is following too closely...
...and if you're not following someone else closely...
...and if there's no slower traffic to pass...
...and no faster traffic passing you.
:-)

It's different, but did you ever do any bad weather flying?

Nope.
Better to be on the ground wishing you were in the air...

Post by Thomas E.
I tried driving a NASCAR car at a driving school. It was fun, but not
as satisfying as the mental challenge of an IFR flight.

What "driving school" was this? And was it at an oval; a banked oval?
That is perhaps the WORST way to experience the continuous mental
challenge that is driving a race car at speed.

Like, better to be in the grandstand wishing you were on the track than on the track wishing you were in the grandstand????

[Alan Baker]

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by -hh

Post by Thomas E.
Narcissist

Jealous Narcissit ;-)
-hh

Ha. My addiction is airplanes. Been flying them for 48+ years. I am now
in a place where I can fly 3-5 hours on just about any day I want to. I
also just passed an instrument proficiency check with flying colors,
and have a medical with no restrictions. I absolutely love flying, and
have nothing to be jealous about. Go play with your little
ground-pounding toys while I fly over you and thumb my nose.

I've done flying.
It is nothing compared to auto racing.
Done properly, flying requires exacting concentration for a very small
fraction of the time. Done properly, road racing requires your exacting
concentration for all BUT a small fraction of your time.
Yes: when you're on the straight, you can take a bit of a breath and
read the gauges and reset your grip on the wheel...
...if no one is following too closely...
...and if you're not following someone else closely...
...and if there's no slower traffic to pass...
...and no faster traffic passing you.
:-)

It's different, but did you ever do any bad weather flying?

Nope.
Better to be on the ground wishing you were in the air...

Post by Thomas E.
I tried driving a NASCAR car at a driving school. It was fun, but not
as satisfying as the mental challenge of an IFR flight.

What "driving school" was this? And was it at an oval; a banked oval?
That is perhaps the WORST way to experience the continuous mental
challenge that is driving a race car at speed.

Like, better to be in the grandstand wishing you were on the track than
on the track wishing you were in the grandstand????

No, actually. Absolutely nothing like that.

:-)

[MuahMan]

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by -hh

Post by Thomas E.
Narcissist

Jealous Narcissit ;-)
-hh

Ha. My addiction is airplanes. Been flying them for 48+ years. I am now
in a place where I can fly 3-5 hours on just about any day I want to. I
also just passed an instrument proficiency check with flying colors,
and have a medical with no restrictions. I absolutely love flying, and
have nothing to be jealous about. Go play with your little
ground-pounding toys while I fly over you and thumb my nose.

I've done flying.
It is nothing compared to auto racing.
Done properly, flying requires exacting concentration for a very small
fraction of the time. Done properly, road racing requires your exacting
concentration for all BUT a small fraction of your time.
Yes: when you're on the straight, you can take a bit of a breath and
read the gauges and reset your grip on the wheel...
...if no one is following too closely...
...and if you're not following someone else closely...
...and if there's no slower traffic to pass...
...and no faster traffic passing you.
:-)

Auto racing is for pussies. Motorcycle racing is all of that only at higher speeds and if you crash you die.

[Alan Baker]

Post by MuahMan

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by -hh

Post by Thomas E.
Narcissist

Jealous Narcissit ;-)
-hh

Ha. My addiction is airplanes. Been flying them for 48+ years. I am now
in a place where I can fly 3-5 hours on just about any day I want to. I
also just passed an instrument proficiency check with flying colors,
and have a medical with no restrictions. I absolutely love flying, and
have nothing to be jealous about. Go play with your little
ground-pounding toys while I fly over you and thumb my nose.

I've done flying.
It is nothing compared to auto racing.
Done properly, flying requires exacting concentration for a very small
fraction of the time. Done properly, road racing requires your exacting
concentration for all BUT a small fraction of your time.
Yes: when you're on the straight, you can take a bit of a breath and
read the gauges and reset your grip on the wheel...
...if no one is following too closely...
...and if you're not following someone else closely...
...and if there's no slower traffic to pass...
...and no faster traffic passing you.
:-)

Auto racing is for pussies. Motorcycle racing is all of that only at
higher speeds and if you crash you die.

And so that's why you don't race, right Brian?

:-)

[Nashton]

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by -hh

Post by Thomas E.
Narcissist

Jealous Narcissit ;-)
-hh

Ha. My addiction is airplanes. Been flying them for 48+ years. I am
now in a place where I can fly 3-5 hours on just about any day I want
to. I also just passed an instrument proficiency check with flying
colors, and have a medical with no restrictions. I absolutely love
flying, and have nothing to be jealous about. Go play with your little
ground-pounding toys while I fly over you and thumb my nose.

I've done flying.

Of course you have ;)

[Alan Baker]

Post by Nashton

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by -hh

Post by Thomas E.
Narcissist

Jealous Narcissit ;-)
-hh

Ha. My addiction is airplanes. Been flying them for 48+ years. I am
now in a place where I can fly 3-5 hours on just about any day I want
to. I also just passed an instrument proficiency check with flying
colors, and have a medical with no restrictions. I absolutely love
flying, and have nothing to be jealous about. Go play with your little
ground-pounding toys while I fly over you and thumb my nose.

I've done flying.

Of course you have ;)

Yup.

Not a lot... ...but then you know that, and that's why you snipped it.

Of course, it's hardly surprising that I'd at least try it, given my
family history.

;-)

[Walter Myer]

Post by Nashton

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by -hh

Post by Thomas E.
Narcissist

Jealous Narcissit ;-)
-hh

Ha. My addiction is airplanes. Been flying them for 48+ years. I am
now in a place where I can fly 3-5 hours on just about any day I want
to. I also just passed an instrument proficiency check with flying
colors, and have a medical with no restrictions. I absolutely love
flying, and have nothing to be jealous about. Go play with your little
ground-pounding toys while I fly over you and thumb my nose.

I've done flying.

Of course you have ;)

LOL!

BWAHAAAHAAAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!

[Alan Baker]

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Nashton

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by -hh

Post by Thomas E.
Narcissist

Jealous Narcissit ;-)
-hh

Ha. My addiction is airplanes. Been flying them for 48+ years. I am
now in a place where I can fly 3-5 hours on just about any day I want
to. I also just passed an instrument proficiency check with flying
colors, and have a medical with no restrictions. I absolutely love
flying, and have nothing to be jealous about. Go play with your little
ground-pounding toys while I fly over you and thumb my nose.

I've done flying.

Of course you have ;)

LOL!
BWAHAAAHAAAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!

Why does the simple truth scare you so much Michael.

I have about 3 hours flying light aircraft; including 3 take-offs and 1
landing as PiC. Those are the simple facts.

[-hh]

Post by Thomas E.
Ha. My addiction is airplanes. Been flying them for 48+ years. I am now in a place
where I can fly 3-5 hours on just about any day I want to.

And just what do you have within ~500 miles worth flying to?

Post by Thomas E.
I also just passed an instrument proficiency check with flying colors, and

have a medical with no restrictions.

So did JFK Jr....

Post by Thomas E.
I absolutely love flying, and have nothing to be jealous about. Go play with
your little ground-pounding toys while I fly over you and thumb my nose.

While others fly over you, doing 550mph and actually getting somewhere
1000+ miles away in 3-5 hours.

FWIW, had a coworker who seemed to love flying and had bought another
bird...he offered me his Cessna at a very reasonable price, whcih is why I
looked at this question of "just what would I want to use it for?". Turns out
that flying around for a few hours wasn't it, even if the view was pretty.

-hh

[Thomas E.]

Post by -hh

Post by Thomas E.
Ha. My addiction is airplanes. Been flying them for 48+ years. I am now in a place
where I can fly 3-5 hours on just about any day I want to.

And just what do you have within ~500 miles worth flying to?

Post by Thomas E.
I also just passed an instrument proficiency check with flying colors, and

have a medical with no restrictions.
So did JFK Jr....

Post by Thomas E.
I absolutely love flying, and have nothing to be jealous about. Go play with
your little ground-pounding toys while I fly over you and thumb my nose.

While others fly over you, doing 550mph and actually getting somewhere
1000+ miles away in 3-5 hours.
FWIW, had a coworker who seemed to love flying and had bought another
bird...he offered me his Cessna at a very reasonable price, whcih is why I
looked at this question of "just what would I want to use it for?". Turns out
that flying around for a few hours wasn't it, even if the view was pretty.
-hh

You simply have no idea how much fun it is to hop in an airplane and go wheeling about in the sky. I also have about 3 million commercial air miles. Those were OK, but nowhere near the pleasure of DYI aviation.

We have taken some very long trips. Pompano Beach, Houston, New Orleans, Orlando, Gulf Coast, Myrtle Beach, Atlanta, Memphis, central Nebraska (hunting), more. Any trip in a small plane is worth taking.

Look at it this way, if it was not enjoyable why have I been at it 48 years, and still looking forward to every trip to the airport?

[Alan Baker]

Post by Thomas E.

Post by -hh

Post by Thomas E.
Ha. My addiction is airplanes. Been flying them for 48+ years. I am now in a place
where I can fly 3-5 hours on just about any day I want to.

And just what do you have within ~500 miles worth flying to?

Post by Thomas E.
I also just passed an instrument proficiency check with flying colors, and

have a medical with no restrictions.
So did JFK Jr....

Post by Thomas E.
I absolutely love flying, and have nothing to be jealous about. Go play with
your little ground-pounding toys while I fly over you and thumb my nose.

While others fly over you, doing 550mph and actually getting somewhere
1000+ miles away in 3-5 hours.
FWIW, had a coworker who seemed to love flying and had bought another
bird...he offered me his Cessna at a very reasonable price, whcih is why I
looked at this question of "just what would I want to use it for?". Turns out
that flying around for a few hours wasn't it, even if the view was pretty.
-hh

You simply have no idea how much fun it is to hop in an airplane and go
wheeling about in the sky. I also have about 3 million commercial air
miles. Those were OK, but nowhere near the pleasure of DYI aviation.
We have taken some very long trips. Pompano Beach, Houston, New
Orleans, Orlando, Gulf Coast, Myrtle Beach, Atlanta, Memphis, central
Nebraska (hunting), more. Any trip in a small plane is worth taking.
Look at it this way, if it was not enjoyable why have I been at it 48
years, and still looking forward to every trip to the airport?

You've always been easily impressed with yourself?

[-hh]

Post by Thomas E.

Post by -hh

Post by Thomas E.
Ha. My addiction is airplanes. Been flying them for 48+ years. I am now in a place
where I can fly 3-5 hours on just about any day I want to.

And just what do you have within ~500 miles worth flying to?
...

Post by Thomas E.
I absolutely love flying, and have nothing to be jealous about. Go play with
your little ground-pounding toys while I fly over you and thumb my nose.

While others fly over you, doing 550mph and actually getting somewhere
1000+ miles away in 3-5 hours.
FWIW, had a coworker who seemed to love flying and had bought another
bird...he offered me his Cessna at a very reasonable price, whcih is why I
looked at this question of "just what would I want to use it for?". Turns out
that flying around for a few hours wasn't it, even if the view was pretty.

You simply have no idea how much fun it is to hop in an airplane and go
wheeling about in the sky.

Except that I actually have had some time behind the stick and while there
is the notional 'freedom to go anywhere' aspect to it, I didn't really find it to
be all that profoundly different from operating a car, boat, or motorcycle to
rationalize adding it as one more recreational activity. OTOH, I haven't tried
sailplanes, which a friend of mine enjoys. Perhaps not unlike racing, it is the
potential appeal of 'more than just getting there' that's the hook.

Post by Thomas E.
I also have about 3 million commercial air miles. Those were OK, but
nowhere near the pleasure of DYI aviation.

Commercial air travel is not really even "Ok" anymore in terms of it being enjoyable.

Post by Thomas E.
We have taken some very long trips. Pompano Beach, Houston, New Orleans,
Orlando, Gulf Coast, Myrtle Beach, Atlanta, Memphis, central Nebraska (hunting),
more.

Where again are you geographically? In any event, this looks like somewhere
around a 700 mile radius operational circle, which at ~150kts is a 4-5 hour
flight time investment, plus prep, maintenance, etc.

Post by Thomas E.
Any trip in a small plane is worth taking.

I'd actually thought about that coworker's plane, from the perspective of making
trips to my parent's retirement home faster & easier, particularly vs the weekend
summer traffic congestion. But the logistics question became how would I get
from the airport to their home, i.e., the logistical arrangements for getting a
rental car at such small municipal airports? I'm sure that there are solutions now,
but I don't think that Enterprise really existed (or was well known) back when
I was doing this contemplation, for example, and Uber definitely didn't exist.

Things have moved on and times have changed, so the pragmatism of this
consideration are moot. I had also considered flying to the destination where
we used to have a place for more regular scuba diving, but it then gets into
multi-engine equipment and ratings due to the over-water distances involved.

Post by Thomas E.
Look at it this way, if it was not enjoyable why have I been at it 48 years,
and still looking forward to every trip to the airport?

So it is your "thing"; got it - - but YMMV applies. That which you find to be
enjoyable doesn't mean that it has to also be the love of everyone else, as well
as vice-versa. For example, I've already spent nearly a full day underwater
this year scuba diving, which obviously means that I enjoy it - but to try to claim
that it is universally better than flying would be foolishly ill-informed, because
I also know that it isn't everyone's cup of tea.


-hh

[Thomas E.]

Post by -hh

Post by Thomas E.

Post by -hh

Post by Thomas E.
Ha. My addiction is airplanes. Been flying them for 48+ years. I am now in a place
where I can fly 3-5 hours on just about any day I want to.

And just what do you have within ~500 miles worth flying to?
...

Post by Thomas E.
I absolutely love flying, and have nothing to be jealous about. Go play with
your little ground-pounding toys while I fly over you and thumb my nose.

While others fly over you, doing 550mph and actually getting somewhere
1000+ miles away in 3-5 hours.
FWIW, had a coworker who seemed to love flying and had bought another
bird...he offered me his Cessna at a very reasonable price, whcih is why I
looked at this question of "just what would I want to use it for?". Turns out
that flying around for a few hours wasn't it, even if the view was pretty.

You simply have no idea how much fun it is to hop in an airplane and go
wheeling about in the sky.

Except that I actually have had some time behind the stick and while there
is the notional 'freedom to go anywhere' aspect to it, I didn't really find it to
be all that profoundly different from operating a car, boat, or motorcycle to
rationalize adding it as one more recreational activity. OTOH, I haven't tried
sailplanes, which a friend of mine enjoys. Perhaps not unlike racing, it is the
potential appeal of 'more than just getting there' that's the hook.

Post by Thomas E.
I also have about 3 million commercial air miles. Those were OK, but
nowhere near the pleasure of DYI aviation.

Commercial air travel is not really even "Ok" anymore in terms of it being enjoyable.

Post by Thomas E.
We have taken some very long trips. Pompano Beach, Houston, New Orleans,
Orlando, Gulf Coast, Myrtle Beach, Atlanta, Memphis, central Nebraska (hunting),
more.

Where again are you geographically? In any event, this looks like somewhere
around a 700 mile radius operational circle, which at ~150kts is a 4-5 hour
flight time investment, plus prep, maintenance, etc.

Post by Thomas E.
Any trip in a small plane is worth taking.

I'd actually thought about that coworker's plane, from the perspective of making
trips to my parent's retirement home faster & easier, particularly vs the weekend
summer traffic congestion. But the logistics question became how would I get
from the airport to their home, i.e., the logistical arrangements for getting a
rental car at such small municipal airports? I'm sure that there are solutions now,
but I don't think that Enterprise really existed (or was well known) back when
I was doing this contemplation, for example, and Uber definitely didn't exist.
Things have moved on and times have changed, so the pragmatism of this
consideration are moot. I had also considered flying to the destination where
we used to have a place for more regular scuba diving, but it then gets into
multi-engine equipment and ratings due to the over-water distances involved.

Post by Thomas E.
Look at it this way, if it was not enjoyable why have I been at it 48 years,
and still looking forward to every trip to the airport?

So it is your "thing"; got it - - but YMMV applies. That which you find to be
enjoyable doesn't mean that it has to also be the love of everyone else, as well
as vice-versa. For example, I've already spent nearly a full day underwater
this year scuba diving, which obviously means that I enjoy it - but to try to claim
that it is universally better than flying would be foolishly ill-informed, because
I also know that it isn't everyone's cup of tea.
-hh

YMMV is the operative phrase. When I was about 10 I went on a ride in a 7AC Champ. It lasted maybe 20 minutes, and it lasted a lifetime. I was hooked. As soon as I could figure out a way to make it happen I got my private license. That was not easy. My dad died suddenly and left us with nothing but a small life insurance policy. So I went out to the local airport and worked out a deal to get paid in flying hours for weekends fueling and washing airplanes. About a year later I had my ticket. By then I had a good paying job too, so in 2 years I was up to 200 hours. Today I have a private license with instrument rating and over 2,500 hours.

Your mileage WILL vary, but sitting up there in the pilot's seat, just cruising along or doing loops and spins, it where I love to be.

The whole point of my reply was that I don't need to envy anybody for what they do for enjoyment. I found my niche, and am very happy in it.

For speed and thrills on another front, I love to hop on a pair of skis and hit the slopes. THAT has a lot in common with racing in a car, but without the steel shell around you! Three weeks on the calendar at Beaver Creek/Vail next year! Woohoo!

[-hh]

Post by Thomas E.

Post by -hh

Ha. My addiction is airplanes...

[...]

So it is your "thing"; got it - - but YMMV applies.
That which you find to be enjoyable doesn't mean that
it has to also be the love of everyone else, as well
as vice-versa. ..

YMMV is the operative phrase.

Always is.

Post by Thomas E.
The whole point of my reply was that I don't need to
envy anybody for what they do for enjoyment. I found
my niche, and am very happy in it.

Same here, but I also saw no need to try to compete with
Alan to say that I'd just been out scuba diving and try
to imply that its a "better" recreational passtime.

Post by Thomas E.
For speed and thrills on another front, I love to
hop on a pair of skis and hit the slopes. THAT has
a lot in common with racing in a car, but without
the steel shell around you! Three weeks on the
calendar at Beaver Creek/Vail next year! Woohoo!

And others get their adrenelin kicks from FPS PC
Games. Or by doing stupid stuff while scuba diving;
case in point:

-hh

[Walter Myer]

Post by -hh

Post by Thomas E.

Post by -hh

Ha. My addiction is airplanes...

[...]

So it is your "thing"; got it - - but YMMV applies.
That which you find to be enjoyable doesn't mean that
it has to also be the love of everyone else, as well
as vice-versa. ..

YMMV is the operative phrase.

Always is.

Post by Thomas E.
The whole point of my reply was that I don't need to
envy anybody for what they do for enjoyment. I found
my niche, and am very happy in it.

Same here, but I also saw no need to try to compete with
Alan

There is no competition with IT. IT'S a natural born loser, just like you, little monkey man.

Post by -hh
to say that I'd just been out scuba diving and try
to imply that its a "better" recreational passtime.

Post by Thomas E.
For speed and thrills on another front, I love to
hop on a pair of skis and hit the slopes. THAT has
a lot in common with racing in a car, but without
the steel shell around you! Three weeks on the
calendar at Beaver Creek/Vail next year! Woohoo!

And others get their adrenelin kicks from FPS PC
Games. Or by doing stupid stuff while scuba diving;
http://youtu.be/zgclsxKrydI
-hh

[Alan Baker]

Post by Thomas E.

Post by -hh

Post by Thomas E.

Post by -hh

Post by Thomas E.
Ha. My addiction is airplanes. Been flying them for 48+ years. I am now
in a place> > > > where I can fly 3-5 hours on just about any day I
want to.

And just what do you have within ~500 miles worth flying to?
...

Post by Thomas E.
I absolutely love flying, and have nothing to be jealous about. Go play
with> > > > your little ground-pounding toys while I fly over you and
thumb my nose.> > >> > > While others fly over you, doing 550mph and
actually getting somewhere

1000+ miles away in 3-5 hours.
FWIW, had a coworker who seemed to love flying and had bought another
bird...he offered me his Cessna at a very reasonable price, whcih is
why I> > > looked at this question of "just what would I want to use it
for?". Turns out
that flying around for a few hours wasn't it, even if the view was pretty.

You simply have no idea how much fun it is to hop in an airplane and go
wheeling about in the sky.

Except that I actually have had some time behind the stick and while there
is the notional 'freedom to go anywhere' aspect to it, I didn't really find it to
be all that profoundly different from operating a car, boat, or motorcycle to
rationalize adding it as one more recreational activity. OTOH, I haven't tried
sailplanes, which a friend of mine enjoys. Perhaps not unlike racing, it is the
potential appeal of 'more than just getting there' that's the hook.>> >
I also have about 3 million commercial air miles. Those were OK, but> >
nowhere near the pleasure of DYI aviation.
Commercial air travel is not really even "Ok" anymore in terms of it being enjoyable.

Post by Thomas E.
We have taken some very long trips. Pompano Beach, Houston, New
Orleans,> > Orlando, Gulf Coast, Myrtle Beach, Atlanta, Memphis,
central Nebraska (hunting),> > more.

Where again are you geographically? In any event, this looks like
somewhere> around a 700 mile radius operational circle, which at
~150kts is a 4-5 hour> flight time investment, plus prep, maintenance,
etc.

Post by Thomas E.
Any trip in a small plane is worth taking.>> I'd actually thought about
that coworker's plane, from the perspective of making

trips to my parent's retirement home faster & easier, particularly vs
the weekend> summer traffic congestion. But the logistics question
became how would I get
from the airport to their home, i.e., the logistical arrangements for
getting a> rental car at such small municipal airports? I'm sure that
there are solutions now,
but I don't think that Enterprise really existed (or was well known)
back when> I was doing this contemplation, for example, and Uber
definitely didn't exist.
Things have moved on and times have changed, so the pragmatism of this>
consideration are moot. I had also considered flying to the
destination where
we used to have a place for more regular scuba diving, but it then gets
into> multi-engine equipment and ratings due to the over-water
distances involved.

Post by Thomas E.
Look at it this way, if it was not enjoyable why have I been at it 48
years,> > and still looking forward to every trip to the airport?

So it is your "thing"; got it - - but YMMV applies. That which you
find to be> enjoyable doesn't mean that it has to also be the love of
everyone else, as well
as vice-versa. For example, I've already spent nearly a full day
underwater> this year scuba diving, which obviously means that I enjoy
it - but to try to claim> that it is universally better than flying
would be foolishly ill-informed, because> I also know that it isn't
everyone's cup of tea.>>> -hh

YMMV is the operative phrase. When I was about 10 I went on a ride in a
7AC Champ. It lasted maybe 20 minutes, and it lasted a lifetime. I was
hooked. As soon as I could figure out a way to make it happen I got my
private license. That was not easy. My dad died suddenly and left us
with nothing but a small life insurance policy. So I went out to the
local airport and worked out a deal to get paid in flying hours for
weekends fueling and washing airplanes. About a year later I had my
ticket. By then I had a good paying job too, so in 2 years I was up to
200 hours. Today I have a private license with instrument rating and
over 2,500 hours.
Your mileage WILL vary, but sitting up there in the pilot's seat, just
cruising along or doing loops and spins, it where I love to be.

I'm honestly very happy for you that you've found something you love, but...

...why do you feel the need to put down what others love?

Post by Thomas E.
The whole point of my reply was that I don't need to envy anybody for
what they do for enjoyment. I found my niche, and am very happy in it.
For speed and thrills on another front, I love to hop on a pair of skis
and hit the slopes. THAT has a lot in common with racing in a car, but
without the steel shell around you! Three weeks on the calendar at
Beaver Creek/Vail next year! Woohoo!

[Walter Myer]

Post by Thomas E.

Post by -hh

Post by Thomas E.
Ha. My addiction is airplanes. Been flying them for 48+ years. I am now in a place
where I can fly 3-5 hours on just about any day I want to.

And just what do you have within ~500 miles worth flying to?

Post by Thomas E.
I also just passed an instrument proficiency check with flying colors, and

have a medical with no restrictions.
So did JFK Jr....

Post by Thomas E.
I absolutely love flying, and have nothing to be jealous about. Go play with
your little ground-pounding toys while I fly over you and thumb my nose.

While others fly over you, doing 550mph and actually getting somewhere
1000+ miles away in 3-5 hours.
FWIW, had a coworker who seemed to love flying and had bought another
bird...he offered me his Cessna at a very reasonable price, whcih is why I
looked at this question of "just what would I want to use it for?". Turns out
that flying around for a few hours wasn't it, even if the view was pretty.
-hh

You simply have no idea how much fun it is to hop in an airplane and go wheeling about in the sky. I also have about 3 million commercial air miles. Those were OK, but nowhere near the pleasure of DYI aviation.
We have taken some very long trips. Pompano Beach, Houston, New Orleans, Orlando, Gulf Coast, Myrtle Beach, Atlanta, Memphis, central Nebraska (hunting), more. Any trip in a small plane is worth taking.
Look at it this way, if it was not enjoyable why have I been at it 48 years, and still looking forward to every trip to the airport?

My goodness!!!!!! And today IT'S a PILOT!!!! How many more hidden talents does that little shit have??

[Alan Baker]

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.

Post by -hh

Post by Thomas E.
Ha. My addiction is airplanes. Been flying them for 48+ years. I am now in a place
where I can fly 3-5 hours on just about any day I want to.

And just what do you have within ~500 miles worth flying to?

Post by Thomas E.
I also just passed an instrument proficiency check with flying colors, and

have a medical with no restrictions.
So did JFK Jr....

Post by Thomas E.
I absolutely love flying, and have nothing to be jealous about. Go play with
your little ground-pounding toys while I fly over you and thumb my nose.

While others fly over you, doing 550mph and actually getting somewhere
1000+ miles away in 3-5 hours.
FWIW, had a coworker who seemed to love flying and had bought another
bird...he offered me his Cessna at a very reasonable price, whcih is why I
looked at this question of "just what would I want to use it for?". Turns out
that flying around for a few hours wasn't it, even if the view was pretty.
-hh

You simply have no idea how much fun it is to hop in an airplane and go
wheeling about in the sky. I also have about 3 million commercial air
miles. Those were OK, but nowhere near the pleasure of DYI aviation.
We have taken some very long trips. Pompano Beach, Houston, New
Orleans, Orlando, Gulf Coast, Myrtle Beach, Atlanta, Memphis, central
Nebraska (hunting), more. Any trip in a small plane is worth taking.
Look at it this way, if it was not enjoyable why have I been at it 48
years, and still looking forward to every trip to the airport?

My goodness!!!!!! And today IT'S a PILOT!!!! How many more hidden
talents does that little shit have??

So... HH is "IT", then?

[Walter Myer]

Post by Thomas E.

Post by -hh

Post by Thomas E.
Ha. My addiction is airplanes. Been flying them for 48+ years. I am now in a place
where I can fly 3-5 hours on just about any day I want to.

And just what do you have within ~500 miles worth flying to?

Post by Thomas E.
I also just passed an instrument proficiency check with flying colors, and

have a medical with no restrictions.
So did JFK Jr....

Post by Thomas E.
I absolutely love flying, and have nothing to be jealous about. Go play with
your little ground-pounding toys while I fly over you and thumb my nose.

While others fly over you, doing 550mph and actually getting somewhere
1000+ miles away in 3-5 hours.
FWIW, had a coworker who seemed to love flying and had bought another
bird...he offered me his Cessna at a very reasonable price, whcih is why I
looked at this question of "just what would I want to use it for?". Turns out
that flying around for a few hours wasn't it, even if the view was pretty.
-hh

You simply have no idea how much fun it is to hop in an airplane and go wheeling about in the sky. I also have about 3 million commercial air miles. Those were OK, but nowhere near the pleasure of DYI aviation.
We have taken some very long trips. Pompano Beach, Houston, New Orleans, Orlando, Gulf Coast, Myrtle Beach, Atlanta, Memphis, central Nebraska (hunting), more. Any trip in a small plane is worth taking.
Look at it this way, if it was not enjoyable why have I been at it 48 years, and still looking forward to every trip to the airport?

IT'S "done flying".

This is what IT has flown:

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=balsa+gliders+that+fly&view=detailv2&&&id=6C9F87BF3D1C16549A2B80E5C7A4BBD029991BD8&selectedIndex=2&ccid=iAuyB4Z3&simid=607987036916092082&thid=JN.2w%2fcmNLIOGFqCxPkXk5nwQ&ajaxhist=0

[-hh]

<http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=balsa+gliders+that+fly&view=detailv2&&&id=6C9F87BF3D1C16549A2B80E5C7A4BBD029991BD8&selectedIndex=2&ccid=iAuyB4Z3&simid=607987036916092082&thid=JN.2w%2fcmNLIOGFqCxPkXk5nwQ&ajaxhist=0>

No idea about that, but a good idea about this:

<Loading Image...>


-hh

[Walter Myer]

Post by -hh

<http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=balsa+gliders+that+fly&view=detailv2&&&id=6C9F87BF3D1C16549A2B80E5C7A4BBD029991BD8&selectedIndex=2&ccid=iAuyB4Z3&simid=607987036916092082&thid=JN.2w%2fcmNLIOGFqCxPkXk5nwQ&ajaxhist=0>

No idea about that,

And a lot of other things.

Post by -hh
<http://www.huntzinger.com/photo/2008/tanzania/A80_20081120_8782.jpg>

Didn't open your link......oh well.

Is it a pic of the fat lady doing aerobatics?

Does she squat in a basket hanging from the ceiling?

[Alan Baker]

Post by Walter Myer

Post by -hh

<http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=balsa+gliders+that+fly&view=detailv2&&&id=6C9F87BF3D1C16549A2B80E5C7A4BBD029991BD8&selectedIndex=2&ccid=iAuyB4Z3&simid=607987036916092082&thid=JN.2w%2fcmNLIOGFqCxPkXk5nwQ&ajaxhist=0>

No idea about that,

And a lot of other things.

Post by -hh
<http://www.huntzinger.com/photo/2008/tanzania/A80_20081120_8782.jpg>

Didn't open your link......oh well.

You've always been a coward...

Post by Walter Myer
Is it a pic of the fat lady doing aerobatics?
Does she squat in a basket hanging from the ceiling?

[Alan Baker]

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.

Post by -hh

Post by Thomas E.
Ha. My addiction is airplanes. Been flying them for 48+ years. I am now in a place
where I can fly 3-5 hours on just about any day I want to.

And just what do you have within ~500 miles worth flying to?

Post by Thomas E.
I also just passed an instrument proficiency check with flying colors, and

have a medical with no restrictions.
So did JFK Jr....

Post by Thomas E.
I absolutely love flying, and have nothing to be jealous about. Go play with
your little ground-pounding toys while I fly over you and thumb my nose.

While others fly over you, doing 550mph and actually getting somewhere
1000+ miles away in 3-5 hours.
FWIW, had a coworker who seemed to love flying and had bought another
bird...he offered me his Cessna at a very reasonable price, whcih is why I
looked at this question of "just what would I want to use it for?". Turns out
that flying around for a few hours wasn't it, even if the view was pretty.
-hh

You simply have no idea how much fun it is to hop in an airplane and go
wheeling about in the sky. I also have about 3 million commercial air
miles. Those were OK, but nowhere near the pleasure of DYI aviation.
We have taken some very long trips. Pompano Beach, Houston, New
Orleans, Orlando, Gulf Coast, Myrtle Beach, Atlanta, Memphis, central
Nebraska (hunting), more. Any trip in a small plane is worth taking.
Look at it this way, if it was not enjoyable why have I been at it 48
years, and still looking forward to every trip to the airport?

IT'S "done flying".

Who has: HH?

Personally, my flying has been in this:

<https://www.google.com/search?q=cessna+152&espv=2&biw=1491&bih=870&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=LCBvVZNS0MuiBOeqgcAK&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ>


And this:

<https://www.google.com/search?q=cessna+152&espv=2&biw=1491&bih=870&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=LCBvVZNS0MuiBOeqgcAK&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ#tbm=isch&q=piper+cub+plane>

Post by Walter Myer
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=balsa+gliders+that+fly&view=detailv2&&&id=6C9F87BF3D1C16549A2B80E5C7A4BBD029991BD8&selectedIndex=2&ccid=iAuyB4Z3&simid=607987036916092082&thid=JN.2w%2fcmNLIOGFqCxPkXk5nwQ&ajaxhist=0

[Thomas E.]

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.

Post by -hh

Post by Thomas E.
Ha. My addiction is airplanes. Been flying them for 48+ years. I am now
in a place
where I can fly 3-5 hours on just about any day I want to.

And just what do you have within ~500 miles worth flying to?

Post by Thomas E.
I also just passed an instrument proficiency check with flying colors, and

have a medical with no restrictions.
So did JFK Jr....

Post by Thomas E.
I absolutely love flying, and have nothing to be jealous about. Go play with
your little ground-pounding toys while I fly over you and thumb my nose.

While others fly over you, doing 550mph and actually getting somewhere
1000+ miles away in 3-5 hours.
FWIW, had a coworker who seemed to love flying and had bought another
bird...he offered me his Cessna at a very reasonable price, whcih is why I
looked at this question of "just what would I want to use it for?". Turns out
that flying around for a few hours wasn't it, even if the view was pretty.
-hh

You simply have no idea how much fun it is to hop in an airplane and go
wheeling about in the sky. I also have about 3 million commercial air
miles. Those were OK, but nowhere near the pleasure of DYI aviation.
We have taken some very long trips. Pompano Beach, Houston, New
Orleans, Orlando, Gulf Coast, Myrtle Beach, Atlanta, Memphis, central
Nebraska (hunting), more. Any trip in a small plane is worth taking.
Look at it this way, if it was not enjoyable why have I been at it 48
years, and still looking forward to every trip to the airport?

IT'S "done flying".

Who has: HH?
<https://www.google.com/search?q=cessna+152&espv=2&biw=1491&bih=870&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=LCBvVZNS0MuiBOeqgcAK&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ>
<https://www.google.com/search?q=cessna+152&espv=2&biw=1491&bih=870&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=LCBvVZNS0MuiBOeqgcAK&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ#tbm=isch&q=piper+cub+plane>

Post by Walter Myer
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=balsa+gliders+that+fly&view=detailv2&&&id=6C9F87BF3D1C16549A2B80E5C7A4BBD029991BD8&selectedIndex=2&ccid=iAuyB4Z3&simid=607987036916092082&thid=JN.2w%2fcmNLIOGFqCxPkXk5nwQ&ajaxhist=0

Flown both of those. Did my private checkride in N2871S, a 1968 150. I have a 30 hours in various tailwheelers.

You should have tried these for some fun flying:

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=cessna%20150%20aerobat&qs=IM&form=QBIR&pq=cessna%20150%20&sc=8-11&sp=4&sk=IM3

https://www.google.com/search?&biw=1680&bih=869&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=citabria+7gcbc&oq=citabria&gs_l=img.3.2.0l10.204899.209837.0.213667.12.8.2.2.2.0.221.649.6j0j1.7.0....0...1c.1.64.img..2.10.595.Fvw3_JG8jCU&bav=on.2,or.&bvm=bv.94911696,d.b2w&dpr=1&ech=1&psi=1m5vVfDOFYfvsAX3-YCIAw.1433366230271.3&ei=rW9vVZ-LA4jYtQWS5YO4BA&emsg=NCSR&noj=1

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=gypsy+moth+airplane&FORM=HDRSC2

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=stearman&qpvt=stearman&qpvt=stearman&FORM=IGRE

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steen_Skybolt

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=c206+on+floats&qpvt=c206+on+floats&qpvt=c206+on+floats&FORM=IGRE

And finally, this one that I got to ride in jump seat and right seat from here to LHR and back while I was working for a company that owned one:

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=gulfstream%20g4&qs=n&form=QBIR&pq=gulfstream%20g4&sc=8-13&sp=-1&sk=

That was two boring flights!

[Alan Baker]

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.

Post by -hh

Post by Thomas E.
Ha. My addiction is airplanes. Been flying them for 48+ years. I am
now> >>>> in a place
where I can fly 3-5 hours on just about any day I want to.

And just what do you have within ~500 miles worth flying to?

Post by Thomas E.
I also just passed an instrument proficiency check with flying colors, and

have a medical with no restrictions.
So did JFK Jr....

Post by Thomas E.
I absolutely love flying, and have nothing to be jealous about. Go play with
your little ground-pounding toys while I fly over you and thumb my nose.

While others fly over you, doing 550mph and actually getting somewhere
1000+ miles away in 3-5 hours.
FWIW, had a coworker who seemed to love flying and had bought another
bird...he offered me his Cessna at a very reasonable price, whcih is why I
looked at this question of "just what would I want to use it for?". Turns out
that flying around for a few hours wasn't it, even if the view was pretty.
-hh

You simply have no idea how much fun it is to hop in an airplane and
go> >> wheeling about in the sky. I also have about 3 million
commercial air> >> miles. Those were OK, but nowhere near the pleasure
of DYI aviation.
We have taken some very long trips. Pompano Beach, Houston, New> >>
Orleans, Orlando, Gulf Coast, Myrtle Beach, Atlanta, Memphis, central>

Post by -hh

Post by Thomas E.
Nebraska (hunting), more. Any trip in a small plane is worth taking.

Look at it this way, if it was not enjoyable why have I been at it 48>

Post by -hh

Post by Thomas E.
years, and still looking forward to every trip to the airport?

IT'S "done flying".

Who has: HH?
<https://www.google.com/search?q=cessna+152&espv=2&biw=1491&bih=870&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=LCBvVZNS0MuiBOeqgcAK&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ>>>>
<https://www.google.com/search?q=cessna+152&espv=2&biw=1491&bih=870&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=LCBvVZNS0MuiBOeqgcAK&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ#tbm=isch&q=piper+cub+plane>>>>

Post by Walter Myer
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=balsa+gliders+that+fly&view=detailv2&&&id=6C9F87BF3D1C16549A2B80E5C7A4BBD029991BD8&selectedIndex=2&ccid=iAuyB4Z3&simid=607987036916092082&thid=JN.2w%2fcmNLIOGFqCxPkXk5nwQ&ajaxhist=0>

Flown both of those. Did my private checkride in N2871S, a 1968 150. I
have a 30 hours in various tailwheelers.
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=cessna%20150%20aerobat&qs=IM&form=QBIR&pq=cessna%20150%20&sc=8-11&sp=4&sk=IM3
https://www.google.com/search?&biw=1680&bih=869&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=citabria+7gcbc&oq=citabria&gs_l=img.3.2.0l10.204899.209837.0.213667.12.8.2.2.2.0.221.649.6j0j1.7.0....0...1c.1.64.img..2.10.595.Fvw3_JG8jCU&bav=on.2,or.&bvm=bv.94911696,d.b2w&dpr=1&ech=1&psi=1m5vVfDOFYfvsAX3-YCIAw.1433366230271.3&ei=rW9vVZ-LA4jYtQWS5YO4BA&emsg=NCSR&noj=1
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=gypsy+moth+airplane&FORM=HDRSC2
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=stearman&qpvt=stearman&qpvt=stearman&FORM=IGRE
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steen_Skybolt
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=c206+on+floats&qpvt=c206+on+floats&qpvt=c206+on+floats&FORM=IGRE

I would have... ...but to me it just wasn't a big deal.

Post by Thomas E.
And finally, this one that I got to ride in jump seat and right seat
from here to LHR and back while I was working for a company that owned
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=gulfstream%20g4&qs=n&form=QBIR&pq=gulfstream%20g4&sc=8-13&sp=-1&sk
That was two boring flights!

I'm still hoping for a ride in one of these:

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panavia_Tornado>

If I can get over to England again soon, I'd like to see if being the
grandson of the former 2IC of the RAF still gets you any consideration.
My GF already got a ride in a CF-18, so I've got to catch up.

:-)

[Thomas E.]

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.

Post by -hh

Post by Thomas E.
Ha. My addiction is airplanes. Been flying them for 48+ years. I am
now> >>>> in a place
where I can fly 3-5 hours on just about any day I want to.

And just what do you have within ~500 miles worth flying to?

Post by Thomas E.
I also just passed an instrument proficiency check with flying colors, and

have a medical with no restrictions.
So did JFK Jr....

Post by Thomas E.
I absolutely love flying, and have nothing to be jealous about. Go play with
your little ground-pounding toys while I fly over you and thumb my nose.

While others fly over you, doing 550mph and actually getting somewhere
1000+ miles away in 3-5 hours.
FWIW, had a coworker who seemed to love flying and had bought another
bird...he offered me his Cessna at a very reasonable price, whcih is why I
looked at this question of "just what would I want to use it for?". Turns out
that flying around for a few hours wasn't it, even if the view was pretty.
-hh

You simply have no idea how much fun it is to hop in an airplane and
go> >> wheeling about in the sky. I also have about 3 million
commercial air> >> miles. Those were OK, but nowhere near the pleasure
of DYI aviation.
We have taken some very long trips. Pompano Beach, Houston, New> >>
Orleans, Orlando, Gulf Coast, Myrtle Beach, Atlanta, Memphis, central>

Post by -hh

Post by Thomas E.
Nebraska (hunting), more. Any trip in a small plane is worth taking.

Look at it this way, if it was not enjoyable why have I been at it 48>

Post by -hh

Post by Thomas E.
years, and still looking forward to every trip to the airport?

IT'S "done flying".

Who has: HH?
<https://www.google.com/search?q=cessna+152&espv=2&biw=1491&bih=870&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=LCBvVZNS0MuiBOeqgcAK&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ>>>>
<https://www.google.com/search?q=cessna+152&espv=2&biw=1491&bih=870&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=LCBvVZNS0MuiBOeqgcAK&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ#tbm=isch&q=piper+cub+plane>>>>

Post by Walter Myer
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=balsa+gliders+that+fly&view=detailv2&&&id=6C9F87BF3D1C16549A2B80E5C7A4BBD029991BD8&selectedIndex=2&ccid=iAuyB4Z3&simid=607987036916092082&thid=JN.2w%2fcmNLIOGFqCxPkXk5nwQ&ajaxhist=0>

Flown both of those. Did my private checkride in N2871S, a 1968 150. I
have a 30 hours in various tailwheelers.
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=cessna%20150%20aerobat&qs=IM&form=QBIR&pq=cessna%20150%20&sc=8-11&sp=4&sk=IM3
https://www.google.com/search?&biw=1680&bih=869&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=citabria+7gcbc&oq=citabria&gs_l=img.3.2.0l10.204899.209837.0.213667.12.8.2.2.2.0.221.649.6j0j1.7.0....0...1c.1.64.img..2.10.595.Fvw3_JG8jCU&bav=on.2,or.&bvm=bv.94911696,d.b2w&dpr=1&ech=1&psi=1m5vVfDOFYfvsAX3-YCIAw.1433366230271.3&ei=rW9vVZ-LA4jYtQWS5YO4BA&emsg=NCSR&noj=1
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=gypsy+moth+airplane&FORM=HDRSC2
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=stearman&qpvt=stearman&qpvt=stearman&FORM=IGRE
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steen_Skybolt
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=c206+on+floats&qpvt=c206+on+floats&qpvt=c206+on+floats&FORM=IGRE

I would have... ...but to me it just wasn't a big deal.

Post by Thomas E.
And finally, this one that I got to ride in jump seat and right seat
from here to LHR and back while I was working for a company that owned
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=gulfstream%20g4&qs=n&form=QBIR&pq=gulfstream%20g4&sc=8-13&sp=-1&sk
That was two boring flights!

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panavia_Tornado>
If I can get over to England again soon, I'd like to see if being the
grandson of the former 2IC of the RAF still gets you any consideration.
My GF already got a ride in a CF-18, so I've got to catch up.
:-)

You know, flying is not for everybody. Some people just don't get it. I get to take 12-18 year old kids on demo flights all the time (6 coming up Saturday). Some are enthralled, some are scared to death, and some just yawn.

Guess you would fall into the yawn category. I was enthralled, 48 years of enthralled. Every flight is different, and to me about as much fun as the first one. It just never gets old. I had a friend, recently deceased, who campaigned a Vette on the SCCA circuit for 35 years. He was also a high time pilot, so it is possible to enjoy both.

[Alan Baker]

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by -hh

Ha. My addiction is airplanes. Been flying them for 48+ years. I am>

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.
now> >>>> in a place

where I can fly 3-5 hours on just about any day I want to.

And just what do you have within ~500 miles worth flying to?

I also just passed an instrument proficiency check with flying colors, and

have a medical with no restrictions.
So did JFK Jr....

I absolutely love flying, and have nothing to be jealous about. Go play with
your little ground-pounding toys while I fly over you and thumb my nose.

While others fly over you, doing 550mph and actually getting somewhere
1000+ miles away in 3-5 hours.
FWIW, had a coworker who seemed to love flying and had bought another
bird...he offered me his Cessna at a very reasonable price, whcih is why I
looked at this question of "just what would I want to use it for?". Turns out
that flying around for a few hours wasn't it, even if the view was pretty.
-hh

You simply have no idea how much fun it is to hop in an airplane and>

Post by -hh

go> >> wheeling about in the sky. I also have about 3 million>
commercial air> >> miles. Those were OK, but nowhere near the

pleasure> >>>> of DYI aviation.
We have taken some very long trips. Pompano Beach, Houston, New> >>>

Post by -hh

Orleans, Orlando, Gulf Coast, Myrtle Beach, Atlanta, Memphis,

central>> >>>> >> Nebraska (hunting), more. Any trip in a small plane
is worth taking.
Look at it this way, if it was not enjoyable why have I been at it 48>>

Post by -hh

Post by Thomas E.
years, and still looking forward to every trip to the airport?

IT'S "done flying".

Who has: HH?
<https://www.google.com/search?q=cessna+152&espv=2&biw=1491&bih=870&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=LCBvVZNS0MuiBOeqgcAK&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ>>>>>
<https://www.google.com/search?q=cessna+152&espv=2&biw=1491&bih=870&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=LCBvVZNS0MuiBOeqgcAK&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ#tbm=isch&q=piper+cub+plane>>>>>

Post by Walter Myer
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=balsa+gliders+that+fly&view=detailv2&&&id=6C9F87BF3D1C16549A2B80E5C7A4BBD029991BD8&selectedIndex=2&ccid=iAuyB4Z3&simid=607987036916092082&thid=JN.2w%2fcmNLIOGFqCxPkXk5nwQ&ajaxhist=0>>

Flown both of those. Did my private checkride in N2871S, a 1968 150. I>

Post by Alan Baker
have a 30 hours in various tailwheelers.

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=cessna%20150%20aerobat&qs=IM&form=QBIR&pq=cessna%20150%20&sc=8-11&sp=4&sk=IM3>
https://www.google.com/search?&biw=1680&bih=869&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=citabria+7gcbc&oq=citabria&gs_l=img.3.2.0l10.204899.209837.0.213667.12.8.2.2.2.0.221.649.6j0j1.7.0....0...1c.1.64.img..2.10.595.Fvw3_JG8jCU&bav=on.2,or.&bvm=bv.94911696,d.b2w&dpr=1&ech=1&psi=1m5vVfDOFYfvsAX3-YCIAw.1433366230271.3&ei=rW9vVZ-LA4jYtQWS5YO4BA&emsg=NCSR&noj=1>
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=gypsy+moth+airplane&FORM=HDRSC2
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=stearman&qpvt=stearman&qpvt=stearman&FORM=IGRE>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by -hh

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steen_Skybolt

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=c206+on+floats&qpvt=c206+on+floats&qpvt=c206+on+floats&FORM=IGRE>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

I would have... ...but to me it just wasn't a big deal.

And finally, this one that I got to ride in jump seat and right seat> >
from here to LHR and back while I was working for a company that owned>
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=gulfstream%20g4&qs=n&form=QBIR&pq=gulfstream%20g4&sc=8-13&sp=-1&sk>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

That was two boring flights!

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panavia_Tornado>
If I can get over to England again soon, I'd like to see if being the>
grandson of the former 2IC of the RAF still gets you any
consideration.> My GF already got a ride in a CF-18, so I've got to
catch up.
:-)

You know, flying is not for everybody. Some people just don't get it. I
get to take 12-18 year old kids on demo flights all the time (6 coming
up Saturday). Some are enthralled, some are scared to death, and some
just yawn.
Guess you would fall into the yawn category. I was enthralled, 48 years
of enthralled. Every flight is different, and to me about as much fun
as the first one. It just never gets old. I had a friend, recently
deceased, who campaigned a Vette on the SCCA circuit for 35 years. He
was also a high time pilot, so it is possible to enjoy both.

Oh, I know.

But no matter how you slice it, it just doesn't provide two things:

Competition.

A need to concentrate CONTINUOUSLY.

[Steve Carroll]

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by -hh

Ha. My addiction is airplanes. Been flying them for 48+ years. I am>

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.
now> >>>> in a place

where I can fly 3-5 hours on just about any day I want to.

And just what do you have within ~500 miles worth flying to?

I also just passed an instrument proficiency check with flying colors, and

have a medical with no restrictions.
So did JFK Jr....

I absolutely love flying, and have nothing to be jealous about. Go play with
your little ground-pounding toys while I fly over you and thumb my nose.

While others fly over you, doing 550mph and actually getting somewhere
1000+ miles away in 3-5 hours.
FWIW, had a coworker who seemed to love flying and had bought another
bird...he offered me his Cessna at a very reasonable price, whcih is why I
looked at this question of "just what would I want to use it for?". Turns out
that flying around for a few hours wasn't it, even if the view was pretty.
-hh

You simply have no idea how much fun it is to hop in an airplane and>

Post by -hh

go> >> wheeling about in the sky. I also have about 3 million>
commercial air> >> miles. Those were OK, but nowhere near the

pleasure> >>>> of DYI aviation.
We have taken some very long trips. Pompano Beach, Houston, New> >>>

Post by -hh

Orleans, Orlando, Gulf Coast, Myrtle Beach, Atlanta, Memphis,

central>> >>>> >> Nebraska (hunting), more. Any trip in a small plane
is worth taking.
Look at it this way, if it was not enjoyable why have I been at it 48>>

Post by -hh

Post by Thomas E.
years, and still looking forward to every trip to the airport?

IT'S "done flying".

Who has: HH?
<https://www.google.com/search?q=cessna+152&espv=2&biw=1491&bih=870&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=LCBvVZNS0MuiBOeqgcAK&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ>>>>>
<https://www.google.com/search?q=cessna+152&espv=2&biw=1491&bih=870&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=LCBvVZNS0MuiBOeqgcAK&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ#tbm=isch&q=piper+cub+plane>>>>>

Post by Walter Myer
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=balsa+gliders+that+fly&view=detailv2&&&id=6C9F87BF3D1C16549A2B80E5C7A4BBD029991BD8&selectedIndex=2&ccid=iAuyB4Z3&simid=607987036916092082&thid=JN.2w%2fcmNLIOGFqCxPkXk5nwQ&ajaxhist=0>>

Flown both of those. Did my private checkride in N2871S, a 1968 150. I>

Post by Alan Baker
have a 30 hours in various tailwheelers.

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=cessna%20150%20aerobat&qs=IM&form=QBIR&pq=cessna%20150%20&sc=8-11&sp=4&sk=IM3>
https://www.google.com/search?&biw=1680&bih=869&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=citabria+7gcbc&oq=citabria&gs_l=img.3.2.0l10.204899.209837.0.213667.12.8.2.2.2.0.221.649.6j0j1.7.0....0...1c.1.64.img..2.10.595.Fvw3_JG8jCU&bav=on.2,or.&bvm=bv.94911696,d.b2w&dpr=1&ech=1&psi=1m5vVfDOFYfvsAX3-YCIAw.1433366230271.3&ei=rW9vVZ-LA4jYtQWS5YO4BA&emsg=NCSR&noj=1>
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=gypsy+moth+airplane&FORM=HDRSC2
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=stearman&qpvt=stearman&qpvt=stearman&FORM=IGRE>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by -hh

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steen_Skybolt

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=c206+on+floats&qpvt=c206+on+floats&qpvt=c206+on+floats&FORM=IGRE>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

I would have... ...but to me it just wasn't a big deal.

And finally, this one that I got to ride in jump seat and right seat> >
from here to LHR and back while I was working for a company that owned>
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=gulfstream%20g4&qs=n&form=QBIR&pq=gulfstream%20g4&sc=8-13&sp=-1&sk>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

That was two boring flights!

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panavia_Tornado>
If I can get over to England again soon, I'd like to see if being the>
grandson of the former 2IC of the RAF still gets you any
consideration.> My GF already got a ride in a CF-18, so I've got to
catch up.
:-)

You know, flying is not for everybody. Some people just don't get it. I
get to take 12-18 year old kids on demo flights all the time (6 coming
up Saturday). Some are enthralled, some are scared to death, and some
just yawn.
Guess you would fall into the yawn category. I was enthralled, 48 years
of enthralled. Every flight is different, and to me about as much fun
as the first one. It just never gets old. I had a friend, recently
deceased, who campaigned a Vette on the SCCA circuit for 35 years. He
was also a high time pilot, so it is possible to enjoy both.

Oh, I know.
Competition.
A need to concentrate CONTINUOUSLY.

That's true of almost any kind of racing, though, even air racing. While not in the same league as formula cars (or air racing) I used to work for midget racecar driver, George Benson, in San Jose, CA. George had the first tig welding shop in the valley, he used to build the little beasts with Offenhauser engines and, apparently, they were in high demand. He was inducted into the Hall of Fame in this category awhile back and he's written a book about his racing exploits (which weren't limited to midgets) and another one about sailing the Pacific Northwest. Along with Nigel (Paul) Bates, a driver George built cars for and raced against, we built high tolerance devices for semiconductor related industries out of George's shop, even fixed some aircraft parts on occasion.

Whenever Ollie Johnson (the 'money' guy for the cars) came by for lunch, we'd hear racing stories for the remainder of the day. George was buying us all a steak on those days and the lunches were rather long so it was easy to listen. To each his own... for example, the thing I miss most about that period is the steelhead fishing up on the Klamath. George would row his drift boat for us and provide all the gear, lodging in his trailer, etc. Now, if I had a plane I could fly into lakes with I might just take up flying ;)

[Alan Baker]

Post by Steve Carroll

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by -hh

Ha. My addiction is airplanes. Been flying them for 48+ years. I am>>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.
now> >>>> in a place

where I can fly 3-5 hours on just about any day I want to.

And just what do you have within ~500 miles worth flying to?

I also just passed an instrument proficiency check with flying colors, and

have a medical with no restrictions.
So did JFK Jr....

I absolutely love flying, and have nothing to be jealous about. Go play with
your little ground-pounding toys while I fly over you and thumb my nose.

While others fly over you, doing 550mph and actually getting somewhere
1000+ miles away in 3-5 hours.
FWIW, had a coworker who seemed to love flying and had bought another
bird...he offered me his Cessna at a very reasonable price, whcih is why I
looked at this question of "just what would I want to use it for?". Turns out
that flying around for a few hours wasn't it, even if the view was pretty.
-hh

You simply have no idea how much fun it is to hop in an airplane and>>

Post by -hh

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.
go> >> wheeling about in the sky. I also have about 3

million>> >>>>>> >>>> commercial air> >> miles. Those were OK, but
nowhere near the> >>>>>> pleasure> >>>> of DYI aviation.
We have taken some very long trips. Pompano Beach, Houston, New> >>>>

Post by -hh

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.
Orleans, Orlando, Gulf Coast, Myrtle Beach, Atlanta,

Memphis,> >>>>>> central>> >>>> >> Nebraska (hunting), more. Any trip
in a small plane> >>>>>> is worth taking.
Look at it this way, if it was not enjoyable why have I been at it
48>>> >>>>>> >>>> >> years, and still looking forward to every trip to
the airport?

IT'S "done flying".

Who has: HH?
<https://www.google.com/search?q=cessna+152&espv=2&biw=1491&bih=870&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=LCBvVZNS0MuiBOeqgcAK&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ>>>>>>
<https://www.google.com/search?q=cessna+152&espv=2&biw=1491&bih=870&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=LCBvVZNS0MuiBOeqgcAK&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ#tbm=isch&q=piper+cub+plane>>>>>>

Post by Walter Myer
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=balsa+gliders+that+fly&view=detailv2&&&id=6C9F87BF3D1C16549A2B80E5C7A4BBD029991BD8&selectedIndex=2&ccid=iAuyB4Z3&simid=607987036916092082&thid=JN.2w%2fcmNLIOGFqCxPkXk5nwQ&ajaxhist=0>>>

Flown both of those. Did my private checkride in N2871S, a 1968 150.
I>> >>> > have a 30 hours in various tailwheelers.
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=cessna%20150%20aerobat&qs=IM&form=QBIR&pq=cessna%20150%20&sc=8-11&sp=4&sk=IM3>>
https://www.google.com/search?&biw=1680&bih=869&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=citabria+7gcbc&oq=citabria&gs_l=img.3.2.0l10.204899.209837.0.213667.12.8.2.2.2.0.221.649.6j0j1.7.0....0...1c.1.64.img..2.10.595.Fvw3_JG8jCU&bav=on.2,or.&bvm=bv.94911696,d.b2w&dpr=1&ech=1&psi=1m5vVfDOFYfvsAX3-YCIAw.1433366230271.3&ei=rW9vVZ-LA4jYtQWS5YO4BA&emsg=NCSR&noj=1>>
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=gypsy+moth+airplane&FORM=HDRSC2
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=stearman&qpvt=stearman&qpvt=stearman&FORM=IGRE>>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by -hh

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steen_Skybolt

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=c206+on+floats&qpvt=c206+on+floats&qpvt=c206+on+floats&FORM=IGRE>>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by -hh

Post by Alan Baker
I would have... ...but to me it just wasn't a big deal.

And finally, this one that I got to ride in jump seat and right seat>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by -hh

from here to LHR and back while I was working for a company that

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=gulfstream%20g4&qs=n&form=QBIR&pq=gulfstream%20g4&sc=8-13&sp=-1&sk>>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by -hh

Post by Alan Baker
That was two boring flights!

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panavia_Tornado>
If I can get over to England again soon, I'd like to see if being the>>

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker
grandson of the former 2IC of the RAF still gets you any> >>

consideration.> My GF already got a ride in a CF-18, so I've got to> >>
catch up.
:-)

You know, flying is not for everybody. Some people just don't get it.
I> > get to take 12-18 year old kids on demo flights all the time (6
coming> > up Saturday). Some are enthralled, some are scared to death,
and some> > just yawn.
Guess you would fall into the yawn category. I was enthralled, 48
years> > of enthralled. Every flight is different, and to me about as
much fun> > as the first one. It just never gets old. I had a friend,
recently> > deceased, who campaigned a Vette on the SCCA circuit for 35
years. He> > was also a high time pilot, so it is possible to enjoy
both.

Oh, I know.
Competition.
A need to concentrate CONTINUOUSLY.

That's true of almost any kind of racing, though, even air racing.
While not in the same league as formula cars (or air racing) I used to
work for midget racecar driver, George Benson, in San Jose, CA. George
had the first tig welding shop in the valley, he used to build the
little beasts with Offenhauser engines and, apparently, they were in
high demand. He was inducted into the Hall of Fame in this category
awhile back and he's written a book about his racing exploits (which
weren't limited to midgets) and another one about sailing the Pacific
Northwest. Along with Nigel (Paul) Bates, a driver George built cars
for and raced against, we built high tolerance devices for
semiconductor related industries out of George's shop, even fixed some
aircraft parts on occasion.
Whenever Ollie Johnson (the 'money' guy for the cars) came by for
lunch, we'd hear racing stories for the remainder of the day. George
was buying us all a steak on those days and the lunches were rather
long so it was easy to listen. To each his own... for example, the
thing I miss most about that period is the steelhead fishing up on the
Klamath. George would row his drift boat for us and provide all the
gear, lodging in his trailer, etc. Now, if I had a plane I could fly
into lakes with I might just take up flying ;)

I think if a private aircraft actually offered a rational
transportation choice in more than a fraction of instances, I might
take it up.

:-)

[Thomas E.]

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Steve Carroll

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by -hh

Ha. My addiction is airplanes. Been flying them for 48+ years. I am>>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.
now> >>>> in a place

where I can fly 3-5 hours on just about any day I want to.

And just what do you have within ~500 miles worth flying to?

I also just passed an instrument proficiency check with flying colors, and

have a medical with no restrictions.
So did JFK Jr....

I absolutely love flying, and have nothing to be jealous about. Go play with
your little ground-pounding toys while I fly over you and thumb my nose.

While others fly over you, doing 550mph and actually getting somewhere
1000+ miles away in 3-5 hours.
FWIW, had a coworker who seemed to love flying and had bought another
bird...he offered me his Cessna at a very reasonable price, whcih is why I
looked at this question of "just what would I want to use it for?". Turns out
that flying around for a few hours wasn't it, even if the view was pretty.
-hh

You simply have no idea how much fun it is to hop in an airplane and>>

Post by -hh

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.
go> >> wheeling about in the sky. I also have about 3

million>> >>>>>> >>>> commercial air> >> miles. Those were OK, but
nowhere near the> >>>>>> pleasure> >>>> of DYI aviation.
We have taken some very long trips. Pompano Beach, Houston, New> >>>>

Post by -hh

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.
Orleans, Orlando, Gulf Coast, Myrtle Beach, Atlanta,

Memphis,> >>>>>> central>> >>>> >> Nebraska (hunting), more. Any trip
in a small plane> >>>>>> is worth taking.
Look at it this way, if it was not enjoyable why have I been at it
48>>> >>>>>> >>>> >> years, and still looking forward to every trip to
the airport?

IT'S "done flying".

Who has: HH?
<https://www.google.com/search?q=cessna+152&espv=2&biw=1491&bih=870&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=LCBvVZNS0MuiBOeqgcAK&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ>>>>>>
<https://www.google.com/search?q=cessna+152&espv=2&biw=1491&bih=870&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=LCBvVZNS0MuiBOeqgcAK&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ#tbm=isch&q=piper+cub+plane>>>>>>

Post by Walter Myer
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=balsa+gliders+that+fly&view=detailv2&&&id=6C9F87BF3D1C16549A2B80E5C7A4BBD029991BD8&selectedIndex=2&ccid=iAuyB4Z3&simid=607987036916092082&thid=JN.2w%2fcmNLIOGFqCxPkXk5nwQ&ajaxhist=0>>>

Flown both of those. Did my private checkride in N2871S, a 1968 150.
I>> >>> > have a 30 hours in various tailwheelers.
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=cessna%20150%20aerobat&qs=IM&form=QBIR&pq=cessna%20150%20&sc=8-11&sp=4&sk=IM3>>
https://www.google.com/search?&biw=1680&bih=869&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=citabria+7gcbc&oq=citabria&gs_l=img.3.2.0l10.204899.209837.0.213667.12.8.2.2.2.0.221.649.6j0j1.7.0....0...1c.1.64.img..2.10.595.Fvw3_JG8jCU&bav=on.2,or.&bvm=bv.94911696,d.b2w&dpr=1&ech=1&psi=1m5vVfDOFYfvsAX3-YCIAw.1433366230271.3&ei=rW9vVZ-LA4jYtQWS5YO4BA&emsg=NCSR&noj=1>>
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=gypsy+moth+airplane&FORM=HDRSC2
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=stearman&qpvt=stearman&qpvt=stearman&FORM=IGRE>>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by -hh

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steen_Skybolt

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=c206+on+floats&qpvt=c206+on+floats&qpvt=c206+on+floats&FORM=IGRE>>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by -hh

Post by Alan Baker
I would have... ...but to me it just wasn't a big deal.

And finally, this one that I got to ride in jump seat and right seat>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by -hh

from here to LHR and back while I was working for a company that

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=gulfstream%20g4&qs=n&form=QBIR&pq=gulfstream%20g4&sc=8-13&sp=-1&sk>>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by -hh

Post by Alan Baker
That was two boring flights!

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panavia_Tornado>
If I can get over to England again soon, I'd like to see if being the>>

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker
grandson of the former 2IC of the RAF still gets you any> >>

consideration.> My GF already got a ride in a CF-18, so I've got to> >>
catch up.
:-)

You know, flying is not for everybody. Some people just don't get it.
I> > get to take 12-18 year old kids on demo flights all the time (6
coming> > up Saturday). Some are enthralled, some are scared to death,
and some> > just yawn.
Guess you would fall into the yawn category. I was enthralled, 48
years> > of enthralled. Every flight is different, and to me about as
much fun> > as the first one. It just never gets old. I had a friend,
recently> > deceased, who campaigned a Vette on the SCCA circuit for 35
years. He> > was also a high time pilot, so it is possible to enjoy
both.

Oh, I know.
Competition.
A need to concentrate CONTINUOUSLY.

That's true of almost any kind of racing, though, even air racing.
While not in the same league as formula cars (or air racing) I used to
work for midget racecar driver, George Benson, in San Jose, CA. George
had the first tig welding shop in the valley, he used to build the
little beasts with Offenhauser engines and, apparently, they were in
high demand. He was inducted into the Hall of Fame in this category
awhile back and he's written a book about his racing exploits (which
weren't limited to midgets) and another one about sailing the Pacific
Northwest. Along with Nigel (Paul) Bates, a driver George built cars
for and raced against, we built high tolerance devices for
semiconductor related industries out of George's shop, even fixed some
aircraft parts on occasion.
Whenever Ollie Johnson (the 'money' guy for the cars) came by for
lunch, we'd hear racing stories for the remainder of the day. George
was buying us all a steak on those days and the lunches were rather
long so it was easy to listen. To each his own... for example, the
thing I miss most about that period is the steelhead fishing up on the
Klamath. George would row his drift boat for us and provide all the
gear, lodging in his trailer, etc. Now, if I had a plane I could fly
into lakes with I might just take up flying ;)

I think if a private aircraft actually offered a rational
transportation choice in more than a fraction of instances, I might
take it up.
:-)

If a AA fuel dragster actually offered a rational
transportation choice in more than a fraction of instances, I might
take it up.

:-)

[Alan Baker]

That's true of almost any kind of racing, though, even air racing.> >
While not in the same league as formula cars (or air racing) I used to>

Post by Steve Carroll
work for midget racecar driver, George Benson, in San Jose, CA.

George> > had the first tig welding shop in the valley, he used to
build the> > little beasts with Offenhauser engines and, apparently,
they were in> > high demand. He was inducted into the Hall of Fame in
this category> > awhile back and he's written a book about his racing
exploits (which> > weren't limited to midgets) and another one about
sailing the Pacific> > Northwest. Along with Nigel (Paul) Bates, a
driver George built cars> > for and raced against, we built high
tolerance devices for> > semiconductor related industries out of
George's shop, even fixed some> > aircraft parts on occasion.
Whenever Ollie Johnson (the 'money' guy for the cars) came by for> >
lunch, we'd hear racing stories for the remainder of the day. George> >
was buying us all a steak on those days and the lunches were rather> >
long so it was easy to listen. To each his own... for example, the> >
thing I miss most about that period is the steelhead fishing up on the>

Post by Steve Carroll
Klamath. George would row his drift boat for us and provide all the>
gear, lodging in his trailer, etc. Now, if I had a plane I could fly>
into lakes with I might just take up flying ;)

I think if a private aircraft actually offered a rational>
transportation choice in more than a fraction of instances, I might>
take it up.
:-)

If a AA fuel dragster actually offered a rationaltransportation choice
in more than a fraction of instances, I mighttake it up.
:-)

1. I'm not driving an AA fuel dragster.

2. I'm road racing for pleasure.

3. Flying might be pleasurable to you, but I'm sorry: unless you are
doing low-level aerobatic flying at all times, it simply doesn't
require the full-on, all-the-time concentration that makes road racing
so compelling.

You may find every flight to be enjoyable, but the simple fact is that
flying a light plane most of the time is a skill that you can learn in
an afternoon. Are there flying situations that require a lot more skill
than that? Of course. Do most pilots actively try and avoid most of
those situations? Yup. Flying a light aircraft on the sorts of days and
conditions that make such flying something one is likely to do is for
the most part VERY EASY.

Note the "for the most part", but that having been said, I was able to
pre-flight, taxi, run-up, take-off, fly (including coordinated turns
once I told the instructor that I understood what they were and how to
do them), fly the pattern and land...

...on the second time I'd ever piloted an aircraft.

I should also note, that if I'd encountered the York Flying Club's
chief instructor for my first flight, I would have done all those
things on that flight instead.

Sorry, but that's just not an activity that I'm going to find very appealing.

[Thomas E.]

Post by Alan Baker

That's true of almost any kind of racing, though, even air racing.> >
While not in the same league as formula cars (or air racing) I used to>

Post by Steve Carroll
work for midget racecar driver, George Benson, in San Jose, CA.

George> > had the first tig welding shop in the valley, he used to
build the> > little beasts with Offenhauser engines and, apparently,
they were in> > high demand. He was inducted into the Hall of Fame in
this category> > awhile back and he's written a book about his racing
exploits (which> > weren't limited to midgets) and another one about
sailing the Pacific> > Northwest. Along with Nigel (Paul) Bates, a
driver George built cars> > for and raced against, we built high
tolerance devices for> > semiconductor related industries out of
George's shop, even fixed some> > aircraft parts on occasion.
Whenever Ollie Johnson (the 'money' guy for the cars) came by for> >
lunch, we'd hear racing stories for the remainder of the day. George> >
was buying us all a steak on those days and the lunches were rather> >
long so it was easy to listen. To each his own... for example, the> >
thing I miss most about that period is the steelhead fishing up on the>

Post by Steve Carroll
Klamath. George would row his drift boat for us and provide all the>
gear, lodging in his trailer, etc. Now, if I had a plane I could fly>
into lakes with I might just take up flying ;)

I think if a private aircraft actually offered a rational>
transportation choice in more than a fraction of instances, I might>
take it up.
:-)

If a AA fuel dragster actually offered a rationaltransportation choice
in more than a fraction of instances, I mighttake it up.
:-)

1. I'm not driving an AA fuel dragster.
2. I'm road racing for pleasure.
3. Flying might be pleasurable to you, but I'm sorry: unless you are
doing low-level aerobatic flying at all times, it simply doesn't
require the full-on, all-the-time concentration that makes road racing
so compelling.
You may find every flight to be enjoyable, but the simple fact is that
flying a light plane most of the time is a skill that you can learn in
an afternoon. Are there flying situations that require a lot more skill
than that? Of course. Do most pilots actively try and avoid most of
those situations? Yup. Flying a light aircraft on the sorts of days and
conditions that make such flying something one is likely to do is for
the most part VERY EASY.
Note the "for the most part", but that having been said, I was able to
pre-flight, taxi, run-up, take-off, fly (including coordinated turns
once I told the instructor that I understood what they were and how to
do them), fly the pattern and land...
...on the second time I'd ever piloted an aircraft.
I should also note, that if I'd encountered the York Flying Club's
chief instructor for my first flight, I would have done all those
things on that flight instead.
Sorry, but that's just not an activity that I'm going to find very appealing.

I'd like to see you try landing a 182 in a gusty 20 knot crosswind. I too landed on my second flight, but it took me 40 hours to get good at it. It took another 40 hours, all dual, to get ready for the instrument ticket. Flying is inherently safe, but unforgiving if you get it wrong.

So go enjoy your road racing.

I guess it just must make you feel like a big bad dude to run down everybody else's choices. Thus the Maccie snobbery comes natural to you. What a narrow minded asshole you are.

[Alan Baker]

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

That's true of almost any kind of racing, though, even air racing.> >>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Steve Carroll
While not in the same league as formula cars (or air racing) I used

to>> >>> > work for midget racecar driver, George Benson, in San Jose,
CA.> >>> George> > had the first tig welding shop in the valley, he
used to> >>> build the> > little beasts with Offenhauser engines and,
apparently,> >>> they were in> > high demand. He was inducted into the
Hall of Fame in> >>> this category> > awhile back and he's written a
book about his racing> >>> exploits (which> > weren't limited to
midgets) and another one about> >>> sailing the Pacific> > Northwest.
Along with Nigel (Paul) Bates, a> >>> driver George built cars> > for
and raced against, we built high> >>> tolerance devices for> >
semiconductor related industries out of> >>> George's shop, even fixed
some> > aircraft parts on occasion.
Whenever Ollie Johnson (the 'money' guy for the cars) came by for> >>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Steve Carroll
lunch, we'd hear racing stories for the remainder of the day.

George> >> >>> was buying us all a steak on those days and the lunches
were rather> >> >>> long so it was easy to listen. To each his own...
for example, the> >> >>> thing I miss most about that period is the
steelhead fishing up on the>> >>> > Klamath. George would row his drift
boat for us and provide all the>> >>> > gear, lodging in his trailer,
etc. Now, if I had a plane I could fly>> >>> > into lakes with I might
just take up flying ;)

I think if a private aircraft actually offered a rational>> >>
transportation choice in more than a fraction of instances, I might>>

Post by Alan Baker
take it up.

:-)

If a AA fuel dragster actually offered a rationaltransportation choice>

in more than a fraction of instances, I mighttake it up.

:-)

1. I'm not driving an AA fuel dragster.
2. I'm road racing for pleasure.
3. Flying might be pleasurable to you, but I'm sorry: unless you are>
doing low-level aerobatic flying at all times, it simply doesn't>
require the full-on, all-the-time concentration that makes road racing>
so compelling.
You may find every flight to be enjoyable, but the simple fact is that>
flying a light plane most of the time is a skill that you can learn in>
an afternoon. Are there flying situations that require a lot more
skill> than that? Of course. Do most pilots actively try and avoid most
of> those situations? Yup. Flying a light aircraft on the sorts of days
and> conditions that make such flying something one is likely to do is
for> the most part VERY EASY.
Note the "for the most part", but that having been said, I was able to>
pre-flight, taxi, run-up, take-off, fly (including coordinated turns>
once I told the instructor that I understood what they were and how to>
do them), fly the pattern and land...
...on the second time I'd ever piloted an aircraft.
I should also note, that if I'd encountered the York Flying Club's>
chief instructor for my first flight, I would have done all those>
things on that flight instead.
Sorry, but that's just not an activity that I'm going to find very appealing.

I'd like to see you try landing a 182 in a gusty 20 knot crosswind. I
too landed on my second flight, but it took me 40 hours to get good at
it. It took another 40 hours, all dual, to get ready for the instrument
ticket. Flying is inherently safe, but unforgiving if you get it wrong.
So go enjoy your road racing.
I guess it just must make you feel like a big bad dude to run down
everybody else's choices. Thus the Maccie snobbery comes natural to
you. What a narrow minded asshole you are.

"Go play with your little ground-pounding toys while I fly over you and
thumb my nose."

Recall who said that, Tommy-boy?

[Thomas E.]

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by -hh

Ha. My addiction is airplanes. Been flying them for 48+ years. I am>

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.
now> >>>> in a place

where I can fly 3-5 hours on just about any day I want to.

And just what do you have within ~500 miles worth flying to?

I also just passed an instrument proficiency check with flying colors, and

have a medical with no restrictions.
So did JFK Jr....

I absolutely love flying, and have nothing to be jealous about. Go play with
your little ground-pounding toys while I fly over you and thumb my nose.

While others fly over you, doing 550mph and actually getting somewhere
1000+ miles away in 3-5 hours.
FWIW, had a coworker who seemed to love flying and had bought another
bird...he offered me his Cessna at a very reasonable price, whcih is why I
looked at this question of "just what would I want to use it for?". Turns out
that flying around for a few hours wasn't it, even if the view was pretty.
-hh

You simply have no idea how much fun it is to hop in an airplane and>

Post by -hh

go> >> wheeling about in the sky. I also have about 3 million>
commercial air> >> miles. Those were OK, but nowhere near the

pleasure> >>>> of DYI aviation.
We have taken some very long trips. Pompano Beach, Houston, New> >>>

Post by -hh

Orleans, Orlando, Gulf Coast, Myrtle Beach, Atlanta, Memphis,

central>> >>>> >> Nebraska (hunting), more. Any trip in a small plane
is worth taking.
Look at it this way, if it was not enjoyable why have I been at it 48>>

Post by -hh

Post by Thomas E.
years, and still looking forward to every trip to the airport?

IT'S "done flying".

Who has: HH?
<https://www.google.com/search?q=cessna+152&espv=2&biw=1491&bih=870&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=LCBvVZNS0MuiBOeqgcAK&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ>>>>>
<https://www.google.com/search?q=cessna+152&espv=2&biw=1491&bih=870&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=LCBvVZNS0MuiBOeqgcAK&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ#tbm=isch&q=piper+cub+plane>>>>>

Post by Walter Myer
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=balsa+gliders+that+fly&view=detailv2&&&id=6C9F87BF3D1C16549A2B80E5C7A4BBD029991BD8&selectedIndex=2&ccid=iAuyB4Z3&simid=607987036916092082&thid=JN.2w%2fcmNLIOGFqCxPkXk5nwQ&ajaxhist=0>>

Flown both of those. Did my private checkride in N2871S, a 1968 150. I>

Post by Alan Baker
have a 30 hours in various tailwheelers.

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=cessna%20150%20aerobat&qs=IM&form=QBIR&pq=cessna%20150%20&sc=8-11&sp=4&sk=IM3>
https://www.google.com/search?&biw=1680&bih=869&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=citabria+7gcbc&oq=citabria&gs_l=img.3.2.0l10.204899.209837.0.213667.12.8.2.2.2.0.221.649.6j0j1.7.0....0...1c.1.64.img..2.10.595.Fvw3_JG8jCU&bav=on.2,or.&bvm=bv.94911696,d.b2w&dpr=1&ech=1&psi=1m5vVfDOFYfvsAX3-YCIAw.1433366230271.3&ei=rW9vVZ-LA4jYtQWS5YO4BA&emsg=NCSR&noj=1>
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=gypsy+moth+airplane&FORM=HDRSC2
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=stearman&qpvt=stearman&qpvt=stearman&FORM=IGRE>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by -hh

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steen_Skybolt

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=c206+on+floats&qpvt=c206+on+floats&qpvt=c206+on+floats&FORM=IGRE>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

I would have... ...but to me it just wasn't a big deal.

And finally, this one that I got to ride in jump seat and right seat> >
from here to LHR and back while I was working for a company that owned>
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=gulfstream%20g4&qs=n&form=QBIR&pq=gulfstream%20g4&sc=8-13&sp=-1&sk>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

That was two boring flights!

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panavia_Tornado>
If I can get over to England again soon, I'd like to see if being the>
grandson of the former 2IC of the RAF still gets you any
consideration.> My GF already got a ride in a CF-18, so I've got to
catch up.
:-)

You know, flying is not for everybody. Some people just don't get it. I
get to take 12-18 year old kids on demo flights all the time (6 coming
up Saturday). Some are enthralled, some are scared to death, and some
just yawn.
Guess you would fall into the yawn category. I was enthralled, 48 years
of enthralled. Every flight is different, and to me about as much fun
as the first one. It just never gets old. I had a friend, recently
deceased, who campaigned a Vette on the SCCA circuit for 35 years. He
was also a high time pilot, so it is possible to enjoy both.

Oh, I know.
Competition.
A need to concentrate CONTINUOUSLY.

So what. That's your thing, not mine. Except when I'm skiing.

[Alan Baker]

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

You simply have no idea how much fun it is to hop in an airplane and>>

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.
go> >> wheeling about in the sky. I also have about 3

million>> >>>>>> >>>> commercial air> >> miles. Those were OK, but
nowhere near the> >>>>>> pleasure> >>>> of DYI aviation.
We have taken some very long trips. Pompano Beach, Houston, New> >>>>

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.
Orleans, Orlando, Gulf Coast, Myrtle Beach, Atlanta,

Memphis,> >>>>>> central>> >>>> >> Nebraska (hunting), more. Any trip
in a small plane> >>>>>> is worth taking.
Look at it this way, if it was not enjoyable why have I been at it
48>>> >>>>>> >>>> >> years, and still looking forward to every trip to
the airport?

IT'S "done flying".

Who has: HH?
<https://www.google.com/search?q=cessna+152&espv=2&biw=1491&bih=870&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=LCBvVZNS0MuiBOeqgcAK&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ>>>>>>
<https://www.google.com/search?q=cessna+152&espv=2&biw=1491&bih=870&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=LCBvVZNS0MuiBOeqgcAK&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ#tbm=isch&q=piper+cub+plane>>>>>>

Post by Walter Myer
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=balsa+gliders+that+fly&view=detailv2&&&id=6C9F87BF3D1C16549A2B80E5C7A4BBD029991BD8&selectedIndex=2&ccid=iAuyB4Z3&simid=607987036916092082&thid=JN.2w%2fcmNLIOGFqCxPkXk5nwQ&ajaxhist=0>>>

Flown both of those. Did my private checkride in N2871S, a 1968 150.
I>> >>> > have a 30 hours in various tailwheelers.
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=cessna%20150%20aerobat&qs=IM&form=QBIR&pq=cessna%20150%20&sc=8-11&sp=4&sk=IM3>>
https://www.google.com/search?&biw=1680&bih=869&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=citabria+7gcbc&oq=citabria&gs_l=img.3.2.0l10.204899.209837.0.213667.12.8.2.2.2.0.221.649.6j0j1.7.0....0...1c.1.64.img..2.10.595.Fvw3_JG8jCU&bav=on.2,or.&bvm=bv.94911696,d.b2w&dpr=1&ech=1&psi=1m5vVfDOFYfvsAX3-YCIAw.1433366230271.3&ei=rW9vVZ-LA4jYtQWS5YO4BA&emsg=NCSR&noj=1>>
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=gypsy+moth+airplane&FORM=HDRSC2
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=stearman&qpvt=stearman&qpvt=stearman&FORM=IGRE>>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steen_Skybolt

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=c206+on+floats&qpvt=c206+on+floats&qpvt=c206+on+floats&FORM=IGRE>>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker
I would have... ...but to me it just wasn't a big deal.

And finally, this one that I got to ride in jump seat and right seat>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.
from here to LHR and back while I was working for a company that

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=gulfstream%20g4&qs=n&form=QBIR&pq=gulfstream%20g4&sc=8-13&sp=-1&sk>>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker
That was two boring flights!

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panavia_Tornado>
If I can get over to England again soon, I'd like to see if being the>>

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker
grandson of the former 2IC of the RAF still gets you any> >>

consideration.> My GF already got a ride in a CF-18, so I've got to> >>
catch up.
:-)

You know, flying is not for everybody. Some people just don't get it.
I> > get to take 12-18 year old kids on demo flights all the time (6
coming> > up Saturday). Some are enthralled, some are scared to death,
and some> > just yawn.
Guess you would fall into the yawn category. I was enthralled, 48
years> > of enthralled. Every flight is different, and to me about as
much fun> > as the first one. It just never gets old. I had a friend,
recently> > deceased, who campaigned a Vette on the SCCA circuit for 35
years. He> > was also a high time pilot, so it is possible to enjoy
both.

Oh, I know.
Competition.
A need to concentrate CONTINUOUSLY.

So what. That's your thing, not mine. Except when I'm skiing.

But you're the one who tried to make your thing comparable, Thomas.

Your thing is EASY 99% of the time. Even simple aerobatics aren't hard
provided you're not trying to execute them near the ground. How is
doing a loop more exciting than riding a midway attraction that loops
after you've mastered the mechanics?

The whole POINT of road racing is to push the limits whereas the whole
point of flying is to avoid them ("no old bold pilots": ever heard
it?). You seem to understand this about skiing, but you just don't get
it about road racing.

[Thomas E.]

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

You simply have no idea how much fun it is to hop in an airplane and>>

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.
go> >> wheeling about in the sky. I also have about 3

million>> >>>>>> >>>> commercial air> >> miles. Those were OK, but
nowhere near the> >>>>>> pleasure> >>>> of DYI aviation.
We have taken some very long trips. Pompano Beach, Houston, New> >>>>

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.
Orleans, Orlando, Gulf Coast, Myrtle Beach, Atlanta,

Memphis,> >>>>>> central>> >>>> >> Nebraska (hunting), more. Any trip
in a small plane> >>>>>> is worth taking.
Look at it this way, if it was not enjoyable why have I been at it
48>>> >>>>>> >>>> >> years, and still looking forward to every trip to
the airport?

IT'S "done flying".

Who has: HH?
<https://www.google.com/search?q=cessna+152&espv=2&biw=1491&bih=870&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=LCBvVZNS0MuiBOeqgcAK&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ>>>>>>
<https://www.google.com/search?q=cessna+152&espv=2&biw=1491&bih=870&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=LCBvVZNS0MuiBOeqgcAK&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ#tbm=isch&q=piper+cub+plane>>>>>>

Post by Walter Myer
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=balsa+gliders+that+fly&view=detailv2&&&id=6C9F87BF3D1C16549A2B80E5C7A4BBD029991BD8&selectedIndex=2&ccid=iAuyB4Z3&simid=607987036916092082&thid=JN.2w%2fcmNLIOGFqCxPkXk5nwQ&ajaxhist=0>>>

Flown both of those. Did my private checkride in N2871S, a 1968 150.
I>> >>> > have a 30 hours in various tailwheelers.
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=cessna%20150%20aerobat&qs=IM&form=QBIR&pq=cessna%20150%20&sc=8-11&sp=4&sk=IM3>>
https://www.google.com/search?&biw=1680&bih=869&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=citabria+7gcbc&oq=citabria&gs_l=img.3.2.0l10.204899.209837.0.213667.12.8.2.2.2.0.221.649.6j0j1.7.0....0...1c.1.64.img..2.10.595.Fvw3_JG8jCU&bav=on.2,or.&bvm=bv.94911696,d.b2w&dpr=1&ech=1&psi=1m5vVfDOFYfvsAX3-YCIAw.1433366230271.3&ei=rW9vVZ-LA4jYtQWS5YO4BA&emsg=NCSR&noj=1>>
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=gypsy+moth+airplane&FORM=HDRSC2
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=stearman&qpvt=stearman&qpvt=stearman&FORM=IGRE>>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steen_Skybolt

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=c206+on+floats&qpvt=c206+on+floats&qpvt=c206+on+floats&FORM=IGRE>>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker
I would have... ...but to me it just wasn't a big deal.

And finally, this one that I got to ride in jump seat and right seat>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.
from here to LHR and back while I was working for a company that

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=gulfstream%20g4&qs=n&form=QBIR&pq=gulfstream%20g4&sc=8-13&sp=-1&sk>>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker
That was two boring flights!

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panavia_Tornado>
If I can get over to England again soon, I'd like to see if being the>>

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker
grandson of the former 2IC of the RAF still gets you any> >>

consideration.> My GF already got a ride in a CF-18, so I've got to> >>
catch up.
:-)

You know, flying is not for everybody. Some people just don't get it.
I> > get to take 12-18 year old kids on demo flights all the time (6
coming> > up Saturday). Some are enthralled, some are scared to death,
and some> > just yawn.
Guess you would fall into the yawn category. I was enthralled, 48
years> > of enthralled. Every flight is different, and to me about as
much fun> > as the first one. It just never gets old. I had a friend,
recently> > deceased, who campaigned a Vette on the SCCA circuit for 35
years. He> > was also a high time pilot, so it is possible to enjoy
both.

Oh, I know.
Competition.
A need to concentrate CONTINUOUSLY.

So what. That's your thing, not mine. Except when I'm skiing.

But you're the one who tried to make your thing comparable, Thomas.
Your thing is EASY 99% of the time. Even simple aerobatics aren't hard
provided you're not trying to execute them near the ground. How is
doing a loop more exciting than riding a midway attraction that loops
after you've mastered the mechanics?
The whole POINT of road racing is to push the limits whereas the whole
point of flying is to avoid them ("no old bold pilots": ever heard
it?). You seem to understand this about skiing, but you just don't get
it about road racing.

I get it because I've raced go karts on twisty road courses and cars and motorcycles on drag strips. I also get sitting back and watching the world slide by under my wings. It's not stressful. That whole point, dickhead.

[Alan Baker]

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

You simply have no idea how much fun it is to hop in an airplane and>>>

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.
go> >> wheeling about in the sky. I also have

about 3> >>>>>>>> million>> >>>>>> >>>> commercial air> >> miles. Those
were OK, but> >>>>>>>> nowhere near the> >>>>>> pleasure> >>>> of DYI
aviation.
We have taken some very long trips. Pompano Beach, Houston, New> >>>>>

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.
Orleans, Orlando, Gulf Coast, Myrtle Beach,

Atlanta,> >>>>>>>> Memphis,> >>>>>> central>> >>>> >> Nebraska
(hunting), more. Any trip> >>>>>>>> in a small plane> >>>>>> is worth
taking.
Look at it this way, if it was not enjoyable why have I been at it>

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

48>>> >>>>>> >>>> >> years, and still looking forward to every

trip to> >>>>>>>> the airport?

IT'S "done flying".

Who has: HH?
<https://www.google.com/search?q=cessna+152&espv=2&biw=1491&bih=870&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=LCBvVZNS0MuiBOeqgcAK&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ>>>>>>>
<https://www.google.com/search?q=cessna+152&espv=2&biw=1491&bih=870&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=LCBvVZNS0MuiBOeqgcAK&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ#tbm=isch&q=piper+cub+plane>>>>>>>

Post by Walter Myer
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=balsa+gliders+that+fly&view=detailv2&&&id=6C9F87BF3D1C16549A2B80E5C7A4BBD029991BD8&selectedIndex=2&ccid=iAuyB4Z3&simid=607987036916092082&thid=JN.2w%2fcmNLIOGFqCxPkXk5nwQ&ajaxhist=0>>>>

Flown both of those. Did my private checkride in N2871S, a 1968 150.>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.
I>> >>> > have a 30 hours in various tailwheelers.

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=cessna%20150%20aerobat&qs=IM&form=QBIR&pq=cessna%20150%20&sc=8-11&sp=4&sk=IM3>>>
https://www.google.com/search?&biw=1680&bih=869&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=citabria+7gcbc&oq=citabria&gs_l=img.3.2.0l10.204899.209837.0.213667.12.8.2.2.2.0.221.649.6j0j1.7.0....0...1c.1.64.img..2.10.595.Fvw3_JG8jCU&bav=on.2,or.&bvm=bv.94911696,d.b2w&dpr=1&ech=1&psi=1m5vVfDOFYfvsAX3-YCIAw.1433366230271.3&ei=rW9vVZ-LA4jYtQWS5YO4BA&emsg=NCSR&noj=1>>>
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=gypsy+moth+airplane&FORM=HDRSC2
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=stearman&qpvt=stearman&qpvt=stearman&FORM=IGRE>>>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steen_Skybolt

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=c206+on+floats&qpvt=c206+on+floats&qpvt=c206+on+floats&FORM=IGRE>>>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

I would have... ...but to me it just wasn't a big deal.

And finally, this one that I got to ride in jump seat and right seat>>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.
from here to LHR and back while I was working for a

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=gulfstream%20g4&qs=n&form=QBIR&pq=gulfstream%20g4&sc=8-13&sp=-1&sk>>>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

That was two boring flights!

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panavia_Tornado>
If I can get over to England again soon, I'd like to see if being
the>>> >>>> >> grandson of the former 2IC of the RAF still gets you
any> >>> >>>> consideration.> My GF already got a ride in a CF-18, so
I've got to> >>> >>>> catch up.
:-)

You know, flying is not for everybody. Some people just don't get it.>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Alan Baker
I> > get to take 12-18 year old kids on demo flights all the time

(6> >>> coming> > up Saturday). Some are enthralled, some are scared to
death,> >>> and some> > just yawn.
Guess you would fall into the yawn category. I was enthralled, 48> >>>
years> > of enthralled. Every flight is different, and to me about as>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Alan Baker
much fun> > as the first one. It just never gets old. I had a

friend,> >>> recently> > deceased, who campaigned a Vette on the SCCA
circuit for 35> >>> years. He> > was also a high time pilot, so it is
possible to enjoy> >>> both.

Oh, I know.
Competition.
A need to concentrate CONTINUOUSLY.

So what. That's your thing, not mine. Except when I'm skiing.

But you're the one who tried to make your thing comparable, Thomas.
Your thing is EASY 99% of the time. Even simple aerobatics aren't hard>
provided you're not trying to execute them near the ground. How is>
doing a loop more exciting than riding a midway attraction that loops>
after you've mastered the mechanics?
The whole POINT of road racing is to push the limits whereas the whole>
point of flying is to avoid them ("no old bold pilots": ever heard>
it?). You seem to understand this about skiing, but you just don't get>
it about road racing.

I get it because I've raced go karts on twisty road courses and cars
and motorcycles on drag strips. I also get sitting back and watching
the world slide by under my wings. It's not stressful. That whole
point, dickhead.

Hey great...

But you presented it as BETTER than motor racing, Tommy-boy.

"Go play with your little ground-pounding toys while I fly over you and
thumb my nose."

Perhaps you recall that?

It's a fine pastime, Tommy. Just don't try and tell us how very intense
it is. If it's intense: you've screwed up.

[Thomas E.]

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

You simply have no idea how much fun it is to hop in an airplane and>>>

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.
go> >> wheeling about in the sky. I also have

about 3> >>>>>>>> million>> >>>>>> >>>> commercial air> >> miles. Those
were OK, but> >>>>>>>> nowhere near the> >>>>>> pleasure> >>>> of DYI
aviation.
We have taken some very long trips. Pompano Beach, Houston, New> >>>>>

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.
Orleans, Orlando, Gulf Coast, Myrtle Beach,

Atlanta,> >>>>>>>> Memphis,> >>>>>> central>> >>>> >> Nebraska
(hunting), more. Any trip> >>>>>>>> in a small plane> >>>>>> is worth
taking.
Look at it this way, if it was not enjoyable why have I been at it>

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

48>>> >>>>>> >>>> >> years, and still looking forward to every

trip to> >>>>>>>> the airport?

IT'S "done flying".

Who has: HH?
<https://www.google.com/search?q=cessna+152&espv=2&biw=1491&bih=870&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=LCBvVZNS0MuiBOeqgcAK&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ>>>>>>>
<https://www.google.com/search?q=cessna+152&espv=2&biw=1491&bih=870&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=LCBvVZNS0MuiBOeqgcAK&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ#tbm=isch&q=piper+cub+plane>>>>>>>

Post by Walter Myer
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=balsa+gliders+that+fly&view=detailv2&&&id=6C9F87BF3D1C16549A2B80E5C7A4BBD029991BD8&selectedIndex=2&ccid=iAuyB4Z3&simid=607987036916092082&thid=JN.2w%2fcmNLIOGFqCxPkXk5nwQ&ajaxhist=0>>>>

Flown both of those. Did my private checkride in N2871S, a 1968 150.>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.
I>> >>> > have a 30 hours in various tailwheelers.

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=cessna%20150%20aerobat&qs=IM&form=QBIR&pq=cessna%20150%20&sc=8-11&sp=4&sk=IM3>>>
https://www.google.com/search?&biw=1680&bih=869&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=citabria+7gcbc&oq=citabria&gs_l=img.3.2.0l10.204899.209837.0.213667.12.8.2.2.2.0.221.649.6j0j1.7.0....0...1c.1.64.img..2.10.595.Fvw3_JG8jCU&bav=on.2,or.&bvm=bv.94911696,d.b2w&dpr=1&ech=1&psi=1m5vVfDOFYfvsAX3-YCIAw.1433366230271.3&ei=rW9vVZ-LA4jYtQWS5YO4BA&emsg=NCSR&noj=1>>>
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=gypsy+moth+airplane&FORM=HDRSC2
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=stearman&qpvt=stearman&qpvt=stearman&FORM=IGRE>>>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steen_Skybolt

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=c206+on+floats&qpvt=c206+on+floats&qpvt=c206+on+floats&FORM=IGRE>>>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

I would have... ...but to me it just wasn't a big deal.

And finally, this one that I got to ride in jump seat and right seat>>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.
from here to LHR and back while I was working for a

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=gulfstream%20g4&qs=n&form=QBIR&pq=gulfstream%20g4&sc=8-13&sp=-1&sk>>>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

That was two boring flights!

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panavia_Tornado>
If I can get over to England again soon, I'd like to see if being
the>>> >>>> >> grandson of the former 2IC of the RAF still gets you
any> >>> >>>> consideration.> My GF already got a ride in a CF-18, so
I've got to> >>> >>>> catch up.
:-)

You know, flying is not for everybody. Some people just don't get it.>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Alan Baker
I> > get to take 12-18 year old kids on demo flights all the time

(6> >>> coming> > up Saturday). Some are enthralled, some are scared to
death,> >>> and some> > just yawn.
Guess you would fall into the yawn category. I was enthralled, 48> >>>
years> > of enthralled. Every flight is different, and to me about as>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Alan Baker
much fun> > as the first one. It just never gets old. I had a

friend,> >>> recently> > deceased, who campaigned a Vette on the SCCA
circuit for 35> >>> years. He> > was also a high time pilot, so it is
possible to enjoy> >>> both.

Oh, I know.
Competition.
A need to concentrate CONTINUOUSLY.

So what. That's your thing, not mine. Except when I'm skiing.

But you're the one who tried to make your thing comparable, Thomas.
Your thing is EASY 99% of the time. Even simple aerobatics aren't hard>
provided you're not trying to execute them near the ground. How is>
doing a loop more exciting than riding a midway attraction that loops>
after you've mastered the mechanics?
The whole POINT of road racing is to push the limits whereas the whole>
point of flying is to avoid them ("no old bold pilots": ever heard>
it?). You seem to understand this about skiing, but you just don't get>
it about road racing.

I get it because I've raced go karts on twisty road courses and cars
and motorcycles on drag strips. I also get sitting back and watching
the world slide by under my wings. It's not stressful. That whole
point, dickhead.

Hey great...
But you presented it as BETTER than motor racing, Tommy-boy.
"Go play with your little ground-pounding toys while I fly over you and
thumb my nose."
Perhaps you recall that?
It's a fine pastime, Tommy. Just don't try and tell us how very intense
it is. If it's intense: you've screwed up.

Alan, you have taken few joy rides with an instructor or other pilot to bail you out if you get in trouble. You have never flown solo. You have never flown in bad weather. You have never been pilot in command when something went wrong with the airplane. You have never been pilot in command with your kids trusting you to get them somewhere safely. You have never flown as pilot in command over water or mountains at night.

You have a few joy rides with no real responsibility. You don't know shit about what's involved, and the constant attention to detail that it takes to fly safely. So shut the fuck up about something you know absolutely nothing about.

Frankly, I think you are not bored by flying, but scared of it.

[Alan Baker]

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.
You simply have no idea how much fun it is to hop in an airplane
and>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> go> >> wheeling about in the
sky. I also have> >>>>>>>>>> about 3> >>>>>>>> million>> >>>>>> >>>>
commercial air> >> miles. Those> >>>>>>>>>> were OK, but> >>>>>>>>
nowhere near the> >>>>>> pleasure> >>>> of DYI> >>>>>>>>>> aviation.
We have taken some very long trips. Pompano Beach, Houston, New> >>>>>>

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.
Orleans, Orlando, Gulf Coast, Myrtle

Beach,> >>>>>>>>>> Atlanta,> >>>>>>>> Memphis,> >>>>>> central>> >>>>

Nebraska> >>>>>>>>>> (hunting), more. Any trip> >>>>>>>> in a small

plane> >>>>>> is worth> >>>>>>>>>> taking.
Look at it this way, if it was not enjoyable why have I been at it>>

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

48>>> >>>>>> >>>> >> years, and still looking

forward to every> >>>>>>>>>> trip to> >>>>>>>> the airport?

IT'S "done flying".

Who has: HH?
<https://www.google.com/search?q=cessna+152&espv=2&biw=1491&bih=870&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=LCBvVZNS0MuiBOeqgcAK&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ>>>>>>>>
<https://www.google.com/search?q=cessna+152&espv=2&biw=1491&bih=870&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=LCBvVZNS0MuiBOeqgcAK&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ#tbm=isch&q=piper+cub+plane>>>>>>>>

Post by Walter Myer
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=balsa+gliders+that+fly&view=detailv2&&&id=6C9F87BF3D1C16549A2B80E5C7A4BBD029991BD8&selectedIndex=2&ccid=iAuyB4Z3&simid=607987036916092082&thid=JN.2w%2fcmNLIOGFqCxPkXk5nwQ&ajaxhist=0>>>>>

Flown both of those. Did my private checkride in N2871S, a 1968 150.>>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.
I>> >>> > have a 30 hours in various tailwheelers.

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=cessna%20150%20aerobat&qs=IM&form=QBIR&pq=cessna%20150%20&sc=8-11&sp=4&sk=IM3>>>>
https://www.google.com/search?&biw=1680&bih=869&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=citabria+7gcbc&oq=citabria&gs_l=img.3.2.0l10.204899.209837.0.213667.12.8.2.2.2.0.221.649.6j0j1.7.0....0...1c.1.64.img..2.10.595.Fvw3_JG8jCU&bav=on.2,or.&bvm=bv.94911696,d.b2w&dpr=1&ech=1&psi=1m5vVfDOFYfvsAX3-YCIAw.1433366230271.3&ei=rW9vVZ-LA4jYtQWS5YO4BA&emsg=NCSR&noj=1>>>>
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=gypsy+moth+airplane&FORM=HDRSC2
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=stearman&qpvt=stearman&qpvt=stearman&FORM=IGRE>>>>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steen_Skybolt

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=c206+on+floats&qpvt=c206+on+floats&qpvt=c206+on+floats&FORM=IGRE>>>>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker
I would have... ...but to me it just wasn't a big

deal.
And finally, this one that I got to ride in jump seat and right seat>>>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.
from here to LHR and back while I was working for

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=gulfstream%20g4&qs=n&form=QBIR&pq=gulfstream%20g4&sc=8-13&sp=-1&sk>>>>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker
That was two boring flights!

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panavia_Tornado>
If I can get over to England again soon, I'd like to see if being>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.

the>>> >>>> >> grandson of the former 2IC of the RAF still gets

you> >>>>>> any> >>> >>>> consideration.> My GF already got a ride in a
CF-18, so> >>>>>> I've got to> >>> >>>> catch up.
:-)

You know, flying is not for everybody. Some people just don't get it.>>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.
I> > get to take 12-18 year old kids on demo flights all the

time> >>>>> (6> >>> coming> > up Saturday). Some are enthralled, some
are scared to> >>>>> death,> >>> and some> > just yawn.
Guess you would fall into the yawn category. I was enthralled, 48> >>>>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.
years> > of enthralled. Every flight is different, and to me

about as>> >>>>> >>> much fun> > as the first one. It just never gets
old. I had a> >>>>> friend,> >>> recently> > deceased, who campaigned a
Vette on the SCCA> >>>>> circuit for 35> >>> years. He> > was also a
high time pilot, so it is> >>>>> possible to enjoy> >>> both.

Oh, I know.
Competition.
A need to concentrate CONTINUOUSLY.

So what. That's your thing, not mine. Except when I'm skiing.

But you're the one who tried to make your thing comparable, Thomas.
Your thing is EASY 99% of the time. Even simple aerobatics aren't
hard>> >> provided you're not trying to execute them near the ground.
How is>> >> doing a loop more exciting than riding a midway attraction
that loops>> >> after you've mastered the mechanics?
The whole POINT of road racing is to push the limits whereas the
whole>> >> point of flying is to avoid them ("no old bold pilots": ever
heard>> >> it?). You seem to understand this about skiing, but you just
don't get>> >> it about road racing.

I get it because I've raced go karts on twisty road courses and cars> >
and motorcycles on drag strips. I also get sitting back and watching> >
the world slide by under my wings. It's not stressful. That whole> >
point, dickhead.

Hey great...
But you presented it as BETTER than motor racing, Tommy-boy.
"Go play with your little ground-pounding toys while I fly over you
and> thumb my nose."
Perhaps you recall that?
It's a fine pastime, Tommy. Just don't try and tell us how very
intense> it is. If it's intense: you've screwed up.

Alan, you have taken few joy rides with an instructor or other pilot to
bail you out if you get in trouble. You have never flown solo. You have
never flown in bad weather. You have never been pilot in command when
something went wrong with the airplane. You have never been pilot in
command with your kids trusting you to get them somewhere safely. You
have never flown as pilot in command over water or mountains at night.
You have a few joy rides with no real responsibility. You don't know
shit about what's involved, and the constant attention to detail that
it takes to fly safely. So shut the fuck up about something you know
absolutely nothing about.
Frankly, I think you are not bored by flying, but scared of it.

Tommy: you started in with the belittling of other people's pastimes.

And as usual, you're wrong: I'm bored by it.

[Thomas E.]

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

You simply have no idea how much fun it is to hop in an airplane and>>>

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.
go> >> wheeling about in the sky. I also have

about 3> >>>>>>>> million>> >>>>>> >>>> commercial air> >> miles. Those
were OK, but> >>>>>>>> nowhere near the> >>>>>> pleasure> >>>> of DYI
aviation.
We have taken some very long trips. Pompano Beach, Houston, New> >>>>>

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.
Orleans, Orlando, Gulf Coast, Myrtle Beach,

Atlanta,> >>>>>>>> Memphis,> >>>>>> central>> >>>> >> Nebraska
(hunting), more. Any trip> >>>>>>>> in a small plane> >>>>>> is worth
taking.
Look at it this way, if it was not enjoyable why have I been at it>

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

48>>> >>>>>> >>>> >> years, and still looking forward to every

trip to> >>>>>>>> the airport?

IT'S "done flying".

Who has: HH?
<https://www.google.com/search?q=cessna+152&espv=2&biw=1491&bih=870&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=LCBvVZNS0MuiBOeqgcAK&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ>>>>>>>
<https://www.google.com/search?q=cessna+152&espv=2&biw=1491&bih=870&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=LCBvVZNS0MuiBOeqgcAK&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ#tbm=isch&q=piper+cub+plane>>>>>>>

Post by Walter Myer
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=balsa+gliders+that+fly&view=detailv2&&&id=6C9F87BF3D1C16549A2B80E5C7A4BBD029991BD8&selectedIndex=2&ccid=iAuyB4Z3&simid=607987036916092082&thid=JN.2w%2fcmNLIOGFqCxPkXk5nwQ&ajaxhist=0>>>>

Flown both of those. Did my private checkride in N2871S, a 1968 150.>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.
I>> >>> > have a 30 hours in various tailwheelers.

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=cessna%20150%20aerobat&qs=IM&form=QBIR&pq=cessna%20150%20&sc=8-11&sp=4&sk=IM3>>>
https://www.google.com/search?&biw=1680&bih=869&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=citabria+7gcbc&oq=citabria&gs_l=img.3.2.0l10.204899.209837.0.213667.12.8.2.2.2.0.221.649.6j0j1.7.0....0...1c.1.64.img..2.10.595.Fvw3_JG8jCU&bav=on.2,or.&bvm=bv.94911696,d.b2w&dpr=1&ech=1&psi=1m5vVfDOFYfvsAX3-YCIAw.1433366230271.3&ei=rW9vVZ-LA4jYtQWS5YO4BA&emsg=NCSR&noj=1>>>
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=gypsy+moth+airplane&FORM=HDRSC2
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=stearman&qpvt=stearman&qpvt=stearman&FORM=IGRE>>>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steen_Skybolt

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=c206+on+floats&qpvt=c206+on+floats&qpvt=c206+on+floats&FORM=IGRE>>>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

I would have... ...but to me it just wasn't a big deal.

And finally, this one that I got to ride in jump seat and right seat>>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.
from here to LHR and back while I was working for a

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=gulfstream%20g4&qs=n&form=QBIR&pq=gulfstream%20g4&sc=8-13&sp=-1&sk>>>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

That was two boring flights!

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panavia_Tornado>
If I can get over to England again soon, I'd like to see if being
the>>> >>>> >> grandson of the former 2IC of the RAF still gets you
any> >>> >>>> consideration.> My GF already got a ride in a CF-18, so
I've got to> >>> >>>> catch up.
:-)

You know, flying is not for everybody. Some people just don't get it.>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Alan Baker
I> > get to take 12-18 year old kids on demo flights all the time

(6> >>> coming> > up Saturday). Some are enthralled, some are scared to
death,> >>> and some> > just yawn.
Guess you would fall into the yawn category. I was enthralled, 48> >>>
years> > of enthralled. Every flight is different, and to me about as>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Alan Baker
much fun> > as the first one. It just never gets old. I had a

friend,> >>> recently> > deceased, who campaigned a Vette on the SCCA
circuit for 35> >>> years. He> > was also a high time pilot, so it is
possible to enjoy> >>> both.

Oh, I know.
Competition.
A need to concentrate CONTINUOUSLY.

So what. That's your thing, not mine. Except when I'm skiing.

But you're the one who tried to make your thing comparable, Thomas.
Your thing is EASY 99% of the time. Even simple aerobatics aren't hard>
provided you're not trying to execute them near the ground. How is>
doing a loop more exciting than riding a midway attraction that loops>
after you've mastered the mechanics?
The whole POINT of road racing is to push the limits whereas the whole>
point of flying is to avoid them ("no old bold pilots": ever heard>
it?). You seem to understand this about skiing, but you just don't get>
it about road racing.

I get it because I've raced go karts on twisty road courses and cars
and motorcycles on drag strips. I also get sitting back and watching
the world slide by under my wings. It's not stressful. That whole
point, dickhead.

Hey great...
But you presented it as BETTER than motor racing, Tommy-boy.
"Go play with your little ground-pounding toys while I fly over you and
thumb my nose."
Perhaps you recall that?
It's a fine pastime, Tommy. Just don't try and tell us how very intense
it is. If it's intense: you've screwed up.

Furthermore, you grossly misunderstand the challenges that pilots see. Here's one, and it's real life. It happened to me on 20 September, 1995.

You are 20 miles out from Memphis, in the clouds, daytime IFR, only one in the airplane, and the alternator failure light comes on. A quick glance at the ammeter confirms that it is not working. You cycle the circuit breaker and the alternator side of the master switch. The ammeter does not twitch, the alternator has REALLY failed.

You have about 15 minutes of battery life with all the radios and other equipment on you need for an instrument approach. It's about 15 minutes before Memphis Approach can get you to the runway on that instrument approach. If the battery goes all the radios you need to do the approach and talk to controllers will die. There no closer airports with instrument approaches where you could divert.

You life depends on what you do in the next 5 minutes. What is your decision?

Here is another from 21 November 1984. You are one a night flight at 8500 feet with the family in the airplane and a magneto fails. You are 125 miles from the destination and 200 miles from home. You still have one good magneto, and the engine is running fine. What do you do?

Here is another, 17 June 1994. You are going into a Chicago area airport, deep inside the Class B airspace, and you lose radio contact with Chicago Approach 5 miles from the destination. What do you do?

Just like racing, it's a mental game, and you had always better have a viable Plan B.

[Alan Baker]

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.
You simply have no idea how much fun it is to hop in an airplane
and>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> go> >> wheeling about in the
sky. I also have> >>>>>>>>>> about 3> >>>>>>>> million>> >>>>>> >>>>
commercial air> >> miles. Those> >>>>>>>>>> were OK, but> >>>>>>>>
nowhere near the> >>>>>> pleasure> >>>> of DYI> >>>>>>>>>> aviation.
We have taken some very long trips. Pompano Beach, Houston, New> >>>>>>

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.
Orleans, Orlando, Gulf Coast, Myrtle

Beach,> >>>>>>>>>> Atlanta,> >>>>>>>> Memphis,> >>>>>> central>> >>>>

Nebraska> >>>>>>>>>> (hunting), more. Any trip> >>>>>>>> in a small

plane> >>>>>> is worth> >>>>>>>>>> taking.
Look at it this way, if it was not enjoyable why have I been at it>>

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

48>>> >>>>>> >>>> >> years, and still looking

forward to every> >>>>>>>>>> trip to> >>>>>>>> the airport?

IT'S "done flying".

Who has: HH?
<https://www.google.com/search?q=cessna+152&espv=2&biw=1491&bih=870&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=LCBvVZNS0MuiBOeqgcAK&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ>>>>>>>>
<https://www.google.com/search?q=cessna+152&espv=2&biw=1491&bih=870&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=LCBvVZNS0MuiBOeqgcAK&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ#tbm=isch&q=piper+cub+plane>>>>>>>>

Post by Walter Myer
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=balsa+gliders+that+fly&view=detailv2&&&id=6C9F87BF3D1C16549A2B80E5C7A4BBD029991BD8&selectedIndex=2&ccid=iAuyB4Z3&simid=607987036916092082&thid=JN.2w%2fcmNLIOGFqCxPkXk5nwQ&ajaxhist=0>>>>>

Flown both of those. Did my private checkride in N2871S, a 1968 150.>>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.
I>> >>> > have a 30 hours in various tailwheelers.

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=cessna%20150%20aerobat&qs=IM&form=QBIR&pq=cessna%20150%20&sc=8-11&sp=4&sk=IM3>>>>
https://www.google.com/search?&biw=1680&bih=869&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=citabria+7gcbc&oq=citabria&gs_l=img.3.2.0l10.204899.209837.0.213667.12.8.2.2.2.0.221.649.6j0j1.7.0....0...1c.1.64.img..2.10.595.Fvw3_JG8jCU&bav=on.2,or.&bvm=bv.94911696,d.b2w&dpr=1&ech=1&psi=1m5vVfDOFYfvsAX3-YCIAw.1433366230271.3&ei=rW9vVZ-LA4jYtQWS5YO4BA&emsg=NCSR&noj=1>>>>
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=gypsy+moth+airplane&FORM=HDRSC2
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=stearman&qpvt=stearman&qpvt=stearman&FORM=IGRE>>>>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steen_Skybolt

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=c206+on+floats&qpvt=c206+on+floats&qpvt=c206+on+floats&FORM=IGRE>>>>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker
I would have... ...but to me it just wasn't a big

deal.
And finally, this one that I got to ride in jump seat and right seat>>>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.
from here to LHR and back while I was working for

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=gulfstream%20g4&qs=n&form=QBIR&pq=gulfstream%20g4&sc=8-13&sp=-1&sk>>>>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker
That was two boring flights!

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panavia_Tornado>
If I can get over to England again soon, I'd like to see if being>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.

the>>> >>>> >> grandson of the former 2IC of the RAF still gets

you> >>>>>> any> >>> >>>> consideration.> My GF already got a ride in a
CF-18, so> >>>>>> I've got to> >>> >>>> catch up.
:-)

You know, flying is not for everybody. Some people just don't get it.>>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.
I> > get to take 12-18 year old kids on demo flights all the

time> >>>>> (6> >>> coming> > up Saturday). Some are enthralled, some
are scared to> >>>>> death,> >>> and some> > just yawn.
Guess you would fall into the yawn category. I was enthralled, 48> >>>>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.
years> > of enthralled. Every flight is different, and to me

about as>> >>>>> >>> much fun> > as the first one. It just never gets
old. I had a> >>>>> friend,> >>> recently> > deceased, who campaigned a
Vette on the SCCA> >>>>> circuit for 35> >>> years. He> > was also a
high time pilot, so it is> >>>>> possible to enjoy> >>> both.

Oh, I know.
Competition.
A need to concentrate CONTINUOUSLY.

So what. That's your thing, not mine. Except when I'm skiing.

But you're the one who tried to make your thing comparable, Thomas.
Your thing is EASY 99% of the time. Even simple aerobatics aren't
hard>> >> provided you're not trying to execute them near the ground.
How is>> >> doing a loop more exciting than riding a midway attraction
that loops>> >> after you've mastered the mechanics?
The whole POINT of road racing is to push the limits whereas the
whole>> >> point of flying is to avoid them ("no old bold pilots": ever
heard>> >> it?). You seem to understand this about skiing, but you just
don't get>> >> it about road racing.

I get it because I've raced go karts on twisty road courses and cars> >
and motorcycles on drag strips. I also get sitting back and watching> >
the world slide by under my wings. It's not stressful. That whole> >
point, dickhead.

Hey great...
But you presented it as BETTER than motor racing, Tommy-boy.
"Go play with your little ground-pounding toys while I fly over you
and> thumb my nose."
Perhaps you recall that?
It's a fine pastime, Tommy. Just don't try and tell us how very
intense> it is. If it's intense: you've screwed up.

Furthermore, you grossly misunderstand the challenges that pilots see.
Here's one, and it's real life. It happened to me on 20 September, 1995.
You are 20 miles out from Memphis, in the clouds, daytime IFR, only one
in the airplane, and the alternator failure light comes on. A quick
glance at the ammeter confirms that it is not working. You cycle the
circuit breaker and the alternator side of the master switch. The
ammeter does not twitch, the alternator has REALLY failed.
You have about 15 minutes of battery life with all the radios and other
equipment on you need for an instrument approach. It's about 15 minutes
before Memphis Approach can get you to the runway on that instrument
approach. If the battery goes all the radios you need to do the
approach and talk to controllers will die. There no closer airports
with instrument approaches where you could divert.
You life depends on what you do in the next 5 minutes. What is your decision?

That would depend on other things you've left unmentioned. Such as, is
it possible for you to get OUT of daytime IFR conditions. But one thing
I'd do is shut down absolutely everything non-essential, and even shut
down the radios between communications.

And then, I don't buy that you have only 15 minutes of battery life
when your alternator goes if you turn off the non-essentials and limit
yourself to a single radio.

Post by Thomas E.
Here is another from 21 November 1984. You are one a night flight at
8500 feet with the family in the airplane and a magneto fails. You are
125 miles from the destination and 200 miles from home. You still have
one good magneto, and the engine is running fine. What do you do?

Make for the nearest available runway.

Post by Thomas E.
Here is another, 17 June 1994. You are going into a Chicago area
airport, deep inside the Class B airspace, and you lose radio contact
with Chicago Approach 5 miles from the destination. What do you do?
Just like racing, it's a mental game, and you had always better have a viable Plan B.

No. It is NOTHING like racing.

You're picking moments when things went bad, but they are the
exception. In racing, you need that concentration ALL THE TIME; when
things are going right.

[Thomas E.]

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.
You simply have no idea how much fun it is to hop in an airplane
and>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> go> >> wheeling about in the
sky. I also have> >>>>>>>>>> about 3> >>>>>>>> million>> >>>>>> >>>>
commercial air> >> miles. Those> >>>>>>>>>> were OK, but> >>>>>>>>
nowhere near the> >>>>>> pleasure> >>>> of DYI> >>>>>>>>>> aviation.
We have taken some very long trips. Pompano Beach, Houston, New> >>>>>>

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.
Orleans, Orlando, Gulf Coast, Myrtle

Beach,> >>>>>>>>>> Atlanta,> >>>>>>>> Memphis,> >>>>>> central>> >>>>

Nebraska> >>>>>>>>>> (hunting), more. Any trip> >>>>>>>> in a small

plane> >>>>>> is worth> >>>>>>>>>> taking.
Look at it this way, if it was not enjoyable why have I been at it>>

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

48>>> >>>>>> >>>> >> years, and still looking

forward to every> >>>>>>>>>> trip to> >>>>>>>> the airport?

IT'S "done flying".

Who has: HH?
<https://www.google.com/search?q=cessna+152&espv=2&biw=1491&bih=870&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=LCBvVZNS0MuiBOeqgcAK&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ>>>>>>>>
<https://www.google.com/search?q=cessna+152&espv=2&biw=1491&bih=870&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=LCBvVZNS0MuiBOeqgcAK&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ#tbm=isch&q=piper+cub+plane>>>>>>>>

Post by Walter Myer
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=balsa+gliders+that+fly&view=detailv2&&&id=6C9F87BF3D1C16549A2B80E5C7A4BBD029991BD8&selectedIndex=2&ccid=iAuyB4Z3&simid=607987036916092082&thid=JN.2w%2fcmNLIOGFqCxPkXk5nwQ&ajaxhist=0>>>>>

Flown both of those. Did my private checkride in N2871S, a 1968 150.>>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.
I>> >>> > have a 30 hours in various tailwheelers.

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=cessna%20150%20aerobat&qs=IM&form=QBIR&pq=cessna%20150%20&sc=8-11&sp=4&sk=IM3>>>>
https://www.google.com/search?&biw=1680&bih=869&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=citabria+7gcbc&oq=citabria&gs_l=img.3.2.0l10.204899.209837.0.213667.12.8.2.2.2.0.221.649.6j0j1.7.0....0...1c.1.64.img..2.10.595.Fvw3_JG8jCU&bav=on.2,or.&bvm=bv.94911696,d.b2w&dpr=1&ech=1&psi=1m5vVfDOFYfvsAX3-YCIAw.1433366230271.3&ei=rW9vVZ-LA4jYtQWS5YO4BA&emsg=NCSR&noj=1>>>>
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=gypsy+moth+airplane&FORM=HDRSC2
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=stearman&qpvt=stearman&qpvt=stearman&FORM=IGRE>>>>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steen_Skybolt

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=c206+on+floats&qpvt=c206+on+floats&qpvt=c206+on+floats&FORM=IGRE>>>>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker
I would have... ...but to me it just wasn't a big

deal.
And finally, this one that I got to ride in jump seat and right seat>>>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.
from here to LHR and back while I was working for

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=gulfstream%20g4&qs=n&form=QBIR&pq=gulfstream%20g4&sc=8-13&sp=-1&sk>>>>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker
That was two boring flights!

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panavia_Tornado>
If I can get over to England again soon, I'd like to see if being>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.

the>>> >>>> >> grandson of the former 2IC of the RAF still gets

you> >>>>>> any> >>> >>>> consideration.> My GF already got a ride in a
CF-18, so> >>>>>> I've got to> >>> >>>> catch up.
:-)

You know, flying is not for everybody. Some people just don't get it.>>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.
I> > get to take 12-18 year old kids on demo flights all the

time> >>>>> (6> >>> coming> > up Saturday). Some are enthralled, some
are scared to> >>>>> death,> >>> and some> > just yawn.
Guess you would fall into the yawn category. I was enthralled, 48> >>>>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.
years> > of enthralled. Every flight is different, and to me

about as>> >>>>> >>> much fun> > as the first one. It just never gets
old. I had a> >>>>> friend,> >>> recently> > deceased, who campaigned a
Vette on the SCCA> >>>>> circuit for 35> >>> years. He> > was also a
high time pilot, so it is> >>>>> possible to enjoy> >>> both.

Oh, I know.
Competition.
A need to concentrate CONTINUOUSLY.

So what. That's your thing, not mine. Except when I'm skiing.

But you're the one who tried to make your thing comparable, Thomas.
Your thing is EASY 99% of the time. Even simple aerobatics aren't
hard>> >> provided you're not trying to execute them near the ground.
How is>> >> doing a loop more exciting than riding a midway attraction
that loops>> >> after you've mastered the mechanics?
The whole POINT of road racing is to push the limits whereas the
whole>> >> point of flying is to avoid them ("no old bold pilots": ever
heard>> >> it?). You seem to understand this about skiing, but you just
don't get>> >> it about road racing.

I get it because I've raced go karts on twisty road courses and cars> >
and motorcycles on drag strips. I also get sitting back and watching> >
the world slide by under my wings. It's not stressful. That whole> >
point, dickhead.

Hey great...
But you presented it as BETTER than motor racing, Tommy-boy.
"Go play with your little ground-pounding toys while I fly over you
and> thumb my nose."
Perhaps you recall that?
It's a fine pastime, Tommy. Just don't try and tell us how very
intense> it is. If it's intense: you've screwed up.

Furthermore, you grossly misunderstand the challenges that pilots see.
Here's one, and it's real life. It happened to me on 20 September, 1995.
You are 20 miles out from Memphis, in the clouds, daytime IFR, only one
in the airplane, and the alternator failure light comes on. A quick
glance at the ammeter confirms that it is not working. You cycle the
circuit breaker and the alternator side of the master switch. The
ammeter does not twitch, the alternator has REALLY failed.
You have about 15 minutes of battery life with all the radios and other
equipment on you need for an instrument approach. It's about 15 minutes
before Memphis Approach can get you to the runway on that instrument
approach. If the battery goes all the radios you need to do the
approach and talk to controllers will die. There no closer airports
with instrument approaches where you could divert.
You life depends on what you do in the next 5 minutes. What is your decision?

That would depend on other things you've left unmentioned. Such as, is
it possible for you to get OUT of daytime IFR conditions. But one thing
I'd do is shut down absolutely everything non-essential, and even shut
down the radios between communications.
And then, I don't buy that you have only 15 minutes of battery life
when your alternator goes if you turn off the non-essentials and limit
yourself to a single radio.

Post by Thomas E.
Here is another from 21 November 1984. You are one a night flight at
8500 feet with the family in the airplane and a magneto fails. You are
125 miles from the destination and 200 miles from home. You still have
one good magneto, and the engine is running fine. What do you do?

Make for the nearest available runway.

Post by Thomas E.
Here is another, 17 June 1994. You are going into a Chicago area
airport, deep inside the Class B airspace, and you lose radio contact
with Chicago Approach 5 miles from the destination. What do you do?
Just like racing, it's a mental game, and you had always better have a viable Plan B.

No. It is NOTHING like racing.
You're picking moments when things went bad, but they are the
exception. In racing, you need that concentration ALL THE TIME; when
things are going right.

Single pilot IFR in IFR weather demands a similar level of engagement to racing. In fact, it's rated as one of the most challenging tasks there is. You MUST continuously pay attention to radio calls, one might be for you, and they pop up randomly. You MUST continuously assess weather, fuel, aircraft instruments, altitude, heading, and plan at least 5 minutes ahead.

VFR is more relaxing, but there are no traffic cops or road signs up there. You are on constant lookout for other aircraft.

Flying, done right, is as fully engaging as race car driving, with similar consequences for errors. To do otherwise has killed quite a few people.

Here is my response to the Memphis issue. At the moment I left off the alternator failure had just happened, and I did not know all the choices.

You are in Class B airspace and cannot turn off all radios or the transponder. Second, the battery might last 15 minutes, it might not. If it fails your goose is cooked. The basic risk is that battery life is unknown. We need to eliminate the consequences as soon as possible.

The best alternative might be to make a 180, head away from Memphis, descend, and hope you break out and can find and airport. Not a bad alternative, but not the best either. What are the bases in your area? Are there radio towers out there? Are there other aircraft below the clouds?

First, I called Memphis Approach and declared and emergency. Next turned off the alternator side of the master switch. That removes the possibility that something in that failed alternator circuit might start a fire. That's why aircraft have split master switches.

Then I asked approach for reports on cloud tops and bases. As it turned out, the bases were about 500 agl, and tops about 2000 feet above me. Given the bases, I started climb to VFR on top. Next, I asked for the nearest available airport with weather good enough for a VFR decent. I asked for a turn to get out of the Class B ASAP, and headed for that airport. Now, if all radios fail I can get to VFR weather, descend, and and find a place for a safe landing.

Exiting Class B I turned off the master switch. That kills all draw from the battery. I happened to have a battery powered backup navcomm, so I used that to navigate to the airport. I could have found an airport without it, but I carry one for my Plan B.

I also did not mention that this was a Cessna RG. It uses a battery powered pump to lower the gear. That pump pulls about 30 amps. Very bad for the remaining battery life. Arriving at the new destination I lowered the gear manually, turned off all but one radio, turned the battery side of the master on, and announced my arrival. Once down safely I taxied to the local FBO and had the mechanic look at the problem.

The alternator bracket was broken at the engine block attach point. The belt was shredded. It was an aluminum bracket, but the FBO had the right welding gear. He got it put back together later that day. Meanwhile I rented a car and drove to my Memphis meeting, arriving about an hour late.

The point is to pay attention at all times, continuously assess the risks, and be prepared to change the plan to eliminate risks from in-flight systems failure. Do the right thing, if if it means you are not going to be on time.

Here are links to basic AOPA courses on IFR and pilot decision-making:

http://flash.aopa.org/asf/single_pilot_ifr/site/html/index/SPIFR.htm

http://flash.aopa.org/asf/decisionmaking/

I think you can take the courses even if you are not an AOPA member.

I suggest that before you talk about flying that you actually take the time to learn something beyond a few VFR joyride experiences with trained pilot doing most of the thinking for you.

I'm guessing that you will come back with a reply that the effect that you already know all you need to know, and don't need to learn anything else, case closed.

PS - I have enough racing experience to be able to appreciate the concentration it takes. It is intense, and on a level comparable to IFR flying. And, it's more physical. Flying takes less brute strength, it's more of a mind game.

If you don't believe me yet, ask a pilot to take you up in the clouds on an IFR flight plan. Ask him to let you try to fly in real world IFR without any help, including radio calls or autopilot. I think you will find "routine" IFR to be FULLY engaging. I am guessing that you will not be able to do it.

:)

[Alan Baker]

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

You simply have no idea how much fun it is to hop in an airplane>

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.
and>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> go> >> wheeling

about in the> >>>>>>>>>>>> sky. I also have> >>>>>>>>>> about 3>

Post by Thomas E.

million>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> commercial air> >> miles.

Those> >>>>>>>>>> were OK, but> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> nowhere near
the> >>>>>> pleasure> >>>> of DYI> >>>>>>>>>> aviation.
We have taken some very long trips. Pompano Beach, Houston, New>

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.
Orleans, Orlando,

Gulf Coast, Myrtle> >>>>>>>>>>>> Beach,> >>>>>>>>>> Atlanta,> >>>>>>>>
Memphis,> >>>>>> central>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >> Nebraska> >>>>>>>>>>
(hunting), more. Any trip> >>>>>>>> in a small> >>>>>>>>>>>> plane>

Post by Thomas E.
is worth> >>>>>>>>>> taking.

Look at it this way, if it was not enjoyable why have I been at it>>>

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

48>>> >>>>>> >>>> >> years, and still

looking> >>>>>>>>>>>> forward to every> >>>>>>>>>> trip to> >>>>>>>>
the airport?

IT'S "done flying".

Who has: HH?
<https://www.google.com/search?q=cessna+152&espv=2&biw=1491&bih=870&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=LCBvVZNS0MuiBOeqgcAK&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ>>>>>>>>>
<https://www.google.com/search?q=cessna+152&espv=2&biw=1491&bih=870&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=LCBvVZNS0MuiBOeqgcAK&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ#tbm=isch&q=piper+cub+plane>>>>>>>>>

Post by Walter Myer
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=balsa+gliders+that+fly&view=detailv2&&&id=6C9F87BF3D1C16549A2B80E5C7A4BBD029991BD8&selectedIndex=2&ccid=iAuyB4Z3&simid=607987036916092082&thid=JN.2w%2fcmNLIOGFqCxPkXk5nwQ&ajaxhist=0>>>>>>

Flown both of those. Did my private checkride in N2871S, a 1968 150.>>>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.
I>> >>> > have a 30 hours in various

tailwheelers.
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=cessna%20150%20aerobat&qs=IM&form=QBIR&pq=cessna%20150%20&sc=8-11&sp=4&sk=IM3>>>>>
https://www.google.com/search?&biw=1680&bih=869&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=citabria+7gcbc&oq=citabria&gs_l=img.3.2.0l10.204899.209837.0.213667.12.8.2.2.2.0.221.649.6j0j1.7.0....0...1c.1.64.img..2.10.595.Fvw3_JG8jCU&bav=on.2,or.&bvm=bv.94911696,d.b2w&dpr=1&ech=1&psi=1m5vVfDOFYfvsAX3-YCIAw.1433366230271.3&ei=rW9vVZ-LA4jYtQWS5YO4BA&emsg=NCSR&noj=1>>>>>
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=gypsy+moth+airplane&FORM=HDRSC2
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=stearman&qpvt=stearman&qpvt=stearman&FORM=IGRE>>>>>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steen_Skybolt
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=c206+on+floats&qpvt=c206+on+floats&qpvt=c206+on+floats&FORM=IGRE>>>>>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker
I would have... ...but to me it just

wasn't a big> >>>>>>>>> deal.
And finally, this one that I got to ride in jump seat and right
seat>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> >> >>> from here to LHR and back while
I was working for> >>>>>>>>> a> >>>>>>> company that> >>>>> owned>> >>>
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=gulfstream%20g4&qs=n&form=QBIR&pq=gulfstream%20g4&sc=8-13&sp=-1&sk>>>>>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker
That was two boring flights!

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panavia_Tornado>
If I can get over to England again soon, I'd like to see if being>>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker
the>>> >>>> >> grandson of the former 2IC of the RAF

still gets> >>>>>>>> you> >>>>>> any> >>> >>>> consideration.> My GF
already got a ride in a> >>>>>>>> CF-18, so> >>>>>> I've got to> >>>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

catch up.

:-)

You know, flying is not for everybody. Some people just don't get
it.>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> >>> I> > get to take 12-18 year old kids on demo
flights all the> >>>>>>> time> >>>>> (6> >>> coming> > up Saturday).
Some are enthralled, some> >>>>>>> are scared to> >>>>> death,> >>> and
some> > just yawn.
Guess you would fall into the yawn category. I was enthralled, 48>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.
years> > of enthralled. Every flight is different,

and to me> >>>>>>> about as>> >>>>> >>> much fun> > as the first one.
It just never gets> >>>>>>> old. I had a> >>>>> friend,> >>> recently>

Post by Alan Baker
deceased, who campaigned a> >>>>>>> Vette on the SCCA> >>>>> circuit

for 35> >>> years. He> > was also a> >>>>>>> high time pilot, so it is>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

possible to enjoy> >>> both.

Oh, I know.
Competition.
A need to concentrate CONTINUOUSLY.

So what. That's your thing, not mine. Except when I'm skiing.

But you're the one who tried to make your thing comparable, Thomas.
Your thing is EASY 99% of the time. Even simple aerobatics aren't> >>>>
hard>> >> provided you're not trying to execute them near the ground.>

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker
How is>> >> doing a loop more exciting than riding a midway

attraction> >>>> that loops>> >> after you've mastered the mechanics?
The whole POINT of road racing is to push the limits whereas the> >>>>
ever> >>>> heard>> >> it?). You seem to understand this about skiing,
but you just> >>>> don't get>> >> it about road racing.

I get it because I've raced go karts on twisty road courses and cars>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker
and motorcycles on drag strips. I also get sitting back and

watching> >> >>> the world slide by under my wings. It's not stressful.
That whole> >> >>> point, dickhead.

Hey great...
But you presented it as BETTER than motor racing, Tommy-boy.
"Go play with your little ground-pounding toys while I fly over you> >>
and> thumb my nose."
Perhaps you recall that?
It's a fine pastime, Tommy. Just don't try and tell us how very> >>
intense> it is. If it's intense: you've screwed up.

Furthermore, you grossly misunderstand the challenges that pilots see.>

Post by Alan Baker
Here's one, and it's real life. It happened to me on 20 September,

1995.
You are 20 miles out from Memphis, in the clouds, daytime IFR, only
one> > in the airplane, and the alternator failure light comes on. A
quick> > glance at the ammeter confirms that it is not working. You
cycle the> > circuit breaker and the alternator side of the master
switch. The> > ammeter does not twitch, the alternator has REALLY
failed.
You have about 15 minutes of battery life with all the radios and
other> > equipment on you need for an instrument approach. It's about
15 minutes> > before Memphis Approach can get you to the runway on that
instrument> > approach. If the battery goes all the radios you need to
do the> > approach and talk to controllers will die. There no closer
airports> > with instrument approaches where you could divert.
You life depends on what you do in the next 5 minutes. What is your decision?

That would depend on other things you've left unmentioned. Such as, is>
it possible for you to get OUT of daytime IFR conditions. But one
thing> I'd do is shut down absolutely everything non-essential, and
even shut> down the radios between communications.
And then, I don't buy that you have only 15 minutes of battery life>
when your alternator goes if you turn off the non-essentials and limit>
yourself to a single radio.

Here is another from 21 November 1984. You are one a night flight at> >
8500 feet with the family in the airplane and a magneto fails. You are>

Post by Alan Baker
125 miles from the destination and 200 miles from home. You still

have> > one good magneto, and the engine is running fine. What do you
do?

Make for the nearest available runway.

Here is another, 17 June 1994. You are going into a Chicago area> >
airport, deep inside the Class B airspace, and you lose radio contact>

Post by Alan Baker
with Chicago Approach 5 miles from the destination. What do you do?

Just like racing, it's a mental game, and you had always better have a>

Post by Alan Baker
viable Plan B.

No. It is NOTHING like racing.
You're picking moments when things went bad, but they are the>
exception. In racing, you need that concentration ALL THE TIME; when>
things are going right.

Single pilot IFR in IFR weather demands a similar level of engagement
to racing. In fact, it's rated as one of the most challenging tasks
there is.

Bullshit.

Post by Thomas E.
You MUST continuously pay attention to radio calls, one might be for
you, and they pop up randomly.

So you must listen.

Post by Thomas E.
You MUST continuously assess weather, fuel, aircraft instruments,
altitude, heading, and plan at least 5 minutes ahead.

Wow. 5 whole minutes. What is the separation you're supposed to maintain?

Post by Thomas E.
VFR is more relaxing, but there are no traffic cops or road signs up
there. You are on constant lookout for other aircraft.
Flying, done right, is as fully engaging as race car driving, with
similar consequences for errors. To do otherwise has killed quite a few
people.

Not even close.

Post by Thomas E.
Here is my response to the Memphis issue. At the moment I left off the
alternator failure had just happened, and I did not know all the
choices.
You are in Class B airspace and cannot turn off all radios or the
transponder. Second, the battery might last 15 minutes, it might not.
If it fails your goose is cooked. The basic risk is that battery life
is unknown. We need to eliminate the consequences as soon as possible.

Actually, you're wrong. You can turn off everything if it is an emergency.

Secondly, by regulation, the battery must last a minimum of half an
hour while running all "loads that are essential to continued safe
flight and landing".

FAR Part 23 Sec. 23.1353

That's assuming you're in an aircraft that isn't certified (I refuse to
use the non-word "certificated") for a maximum altitude above 25,000
feet.

Funny that a pilot wouldn't know that.

Post by Thomas E.
The best alternative might be to make a 180, head away from Memphis,
descend, and hope you break out and can find and airport. Not a bad
alternative, but not the best either. What are the bases in your area?
Are there radio towers out there? Are there other aircraft below the
clouds?
First, I called Memphis Approach and declared and emergency. Next
turned off the alternator side of the master switch. That removes the
possibility that something in that failed alternator circuit might
start a fire. That's why aircraft have split master switches.

Bully for you. Too bad you didn't know you were allowed to turn off the
transponder and the radios if necessary. And you DID know that leaving
one radio on only uses about 0.5 amps when simply receiving, right?

Post by Thomas E.
Then I asked approach for reports on cloud tops and bases. As it turned
out, the bases were about 500 agl, and tops about 2000 feet above me.
Given the bases, I started climb to VFR on top. Next, I asked for the
nearest available airport with weather good enough for a VFR decent. I
asked for a turn to get out of the Class B ASAP, and headed for that
airport. Now, if all radios fail I can get to VFR weather, descend, and
and find a place for a safe landing.
Exiting Class B I turned off the master switch. That kills all draw
from the battery. I happened to have a battery powered backup navcomm,
so I used that to navigate to the airport. I could have found an
airport without it, but I carry one for my Plan B.
I also did not mention that this was a Cessna RG. It uses a battery
powered pump to lower the gear. That pump pulls about 30 amps. Very bad
for the remaining battery life. Arriving at the new destination I
lowered the gear manually, turned off all but one radio, turned the
battery side of the master on, and announced my arrival. Once down
safely I taxied to the local FBO and had the mechanic look at the
problem.

Bravo for you!

Post by Thomas E.
The alternator bracket was broken at the engine block attach point. The
belt was shredded. It was an aluminum bracket, but the FBO had the
right welding gear. He got it put back together later that day.
Meanwhile I rented a car and drove to my Memphis meeting, arriving
about an hour late.
The point is to pay attention at all times, continuously assess the
risks, and be prepared to change the plan to eliminate risks from
in-flight systems failure. Do the right thing, if if it means you are
not going to be on time.

You didn't "pay attention" very well when the flight started, did you?

Post by Thomas E.
http://flash.aopa.org/asf/single_pilot_ifr/site/html/index/SPIFR.htm
http://flash.aopa.org/asf/decisionmaking/
I think you can take the courses even if you are not an AOPA member.
I suggest that before you talk about flying that you actually take the
time to learn something beyond a few VFR joyride experiences with
trained pilot doing most of the thinking for you.

You were talking about just such flying while telling us how much
better flying was than road racing.

Post by Thomas E.
I'm guessing that you will come back with a reply that the effect that
you already know all you need to know, and don't need to learn anything
else, case closed.
PS - I have enough racing experience to be able to appreciate the
concentration it takes. It is intense, and on a level comparable to IFR
flying. And, it's more physical. Flying takes less brute strength, it's
more of a mind game.

It is far more concentration than IFR flying takes.

Again, the idea in flying is to AVOID the situations that require
maximum focus at all times. In racing, you seek out those situations.

Post by Thomas E.
If you don't believe me yet, ask a pilot to take you up in the clouds
on an IFR flight plan. Ask him to let you try to fly in real world IFR
without any help, including radio calls or autopilot. I think you will
find "routine" IFR to be FULLY engaging. I am guessing that you will
not be able to do it.
:)

LOL

[Thomas E.]

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

You simply have no idea how much fun it is to hop in an airplane>

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.
and>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> go> >> wheeling

about in the> >>>>>>>>>>>> sky. I also have> >>>>>>>>>> about 3>

Post by Thomas E.

million>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> commercial air> >> miles.

Those> >>>>>>>>>> were OK, but> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> nowhere near
the> >>>>>> pleasure> >>>> of DYI> >>>>>>>>>> aviation.
We have taken some very long trips. Pompano Beach, Houston, New>

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.
Orleans, Orlando,

Gulf Coast, Myrtle> >>>>>>>>>>>> Beach,> >>>>>>>>>> Atlanta,> >>>>>>>>
Memphis,> >>>>>> central>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >> Nebraska> >>>>>>>>>>
(hunting), more. Any trip> >>>>>>>> in a small> >>>>>>>>>>>> plane>

Post by Thomas E.
is worth> >>>>>>>>>> taking.

Look at it this way, if it was not enjoyable why have I been at it>>>

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

48>>> >>>>>> >>>> >> years, and still

looking> >>>>>>>>>>>> forward to every> >>>>>>>>>> trip to> >>>>>>>>
the airport?

IT'S "done flying".

Who has: HH?
<https://www.google.com/search?q=cessna+152&espv=2&biw=1491&bih=870&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=LCBvVZNS0MuiBOeqgcAK&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ>>>>>>>>>
<https://www.google.com/search?q=cessna+152&espv=2&biw=1491&bih=870&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=LCBvVZNS0MuiBOeqgcAK&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ#tbm=isch&q=piper+cub+plane>>>>>>>>>

Post by Walter Myer
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=balsa+gliders+that+fly&view=detailv2&&&id=6C9F87BF3D1C16549A2B80E5C7A4BBD029991BD8&selectedIndex=2&ccid=iAuyB4Z3&simid=607987036916092082&thid=JN.2w%2fcmNLIOGFqCxPkXk5nwQ&ajaxhist=0>>>>>>

Flown both of those. Did my private checkride in N2871S, a 1968 150.>>>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.
I>> >>> > have a 30 hours in various

tailwheelers.
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=cessna%20150%20aerobat&qs=IM&form=QBIR&pq=cessna%20150%20&sc=8-11&sp=4&sk=IM3>>>>>
https://www.google.com/search?&biw=1680&bih=869&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=citabria+7gcbc&oq=citabria&gs_l=img.3.2.0l10.204899.209837.0.213667.12.8.2.2.2.0.221.649.6j0j1.7.0....0...1c.1.64.img..2.10.595.Fvw3_JG8jCU&bav=on.2,or.&bvm=bv.94911696,d.b2w&dpr=1&ech=1&psi=1m5vVfDOFYfvsAX3-YCIAw.1433366230271.3&ei=rW9vVZ-LA4jYtQWS5YO4BA&emsg=NCSR&noj=1>>>>>
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=gypsy+moth+airplane&FORM=HDRSC2
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=stearman&qpvt=stearman&qpvt=stearman&FORM=IGRE>>>>>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steen_Skybolt
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=c206+on+floats&qpvt=c206+on+floats&qpvt=c206+on+floats&FORM=IGRE>>>>>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker
I would have... ...but to me it just

wasn't a big> >>>>>>>>> deal.
And finally, this one that I got to ride in jump seat and right
seat>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> >> >>> from here to LHR and back while
I was working for> >>>>>>>>> a> >>>>>>> company that> >>>>> owned>> >>>
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=gulfstream%20g4&qs=n&form=QBIR&pq=gulfstream%20g4&sc=8-13&sp=-1&sk>>>>>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker
That was two boring flights!

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panavia_Tornado>
If I can get over to England again soon, I'd like to see if being>>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker
the>>> >>>> >> grandson of the former 2IC of the RAF

still gets> >>>>>>>> you> >>>>>> any> >>> >>>> consideration.> My GF
already got a ride in a> >>>>>>>> CF-18, so> >>>>>> I've got to> >>>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

catch up.

:-)

You know, flying is not for everybody. Some people just don't get
it.>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> >>> I> > get to take 12-18 year old kids on demo
flights all the> >>>>>>> time> >>>>> (6> >>> coming> > up Saturday).
Some are enthralled, some> >>>>>>> are scared to> >>>>> death,> >>> and
some> > just yawn.
Guess you would fall into the yawn category. I was enthralled, 48>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.
years> > of enthralled. Every flight is different,

and to me> >>>>>>> about as>> >>>>> >>> much fun> > as the first one.
It just never gets> >>>>>>> old. I had a> >>>>> friend,> >>> recently>

Post by Alan Baker
deceased, who campaigned a> >>>>>>> Vette on the SCCA> >>>>> circuit

for 35> >>> years. He> > was also a> >>>>>>> high time pilot, so it is>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

possible to enjoy> >>> both.

Oh, I know.
Competition.
A need to concentrate CONTINUOUSLY.

So what. That's your thing, not mine. Except when I'm skiing.

But you're the one who tried to make your thing comparable, Thomas.
Your thing is EASY 99% of the time. Even simple aerobatics aren't> >>>>
hard>> >> provided you're not trying to execute them near the ground.>

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker
How is>> >> doing a loop more exciting than riding a midway

attraction> >>>> that loops>> >> after you've mastered the mechanics?
The whole POINT of road racing is to push the limits whereas the> >>>>
ever> >>>> heard>> >> it?). You seem to understand this about skiing,
but you just> >>>> don't get>> >> it about road racing.

I get it because I've raced go karts on twisty road courses and cars>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker
and motorcycles on drag strips. I also get sitting back and

watching> >> >>> the world slide by under my wings. It's not stressful.
That whole> >> >>> point, dickhead.

Hey great...
But you presented it as BETTER than motor racing, Tommy-boy.
"Go play with your little ground-pounding toys while I fly over you> >>
and> thumb my nose."
Perhaps you recall that?
It's a fine pastime, Tommy. Just don't try and tell us how very> >>
intense> it is. If it's intense: you've screwed up.

Furthermore, you grossly misunderstand the challenges that pilots see.>

Post by Alan Baker
Here's one, and it's real life. It happened to me on 20 September,

1995.
You are 20 miles out from Memphis, in the clouds, daytime IFR, only
one> > in the airplane, and the alternator failure light comes on. A
quick> > glance at the ammeter confirms that it is not working. You
cycle the> > circuit breaker and the alternator side of the master
switch. The> > ammeter does not twitch, the alternator has REALLY
failed.
You have about 15 minutes of battery life with all the radios and
other> > equipment on you need for an instrument approach. It's about
15 minutes> > before Memphis Approach can get you to the runway on that
instrument> > approach. If the battery goes all the radios you need to
do the> > approach and talk to controllers will die. There no closer
airports> > with instrument approaches where you could divert.
You life depends on what you do in the next 5 minutes. What is your decision?

That would depend on other things you've left unmentioned. Such as, is>
it possible for you to get OUT of daytime IFR conditions. But one
thing> I'd do is shut down absolutely everything non-essential, and
even shut> down the radios between communications.
And then, I don't buy that you have only 15 minutes of battery life>
when your alternator goes if you turn off the non-essentials and limit>
yourself to a single radio.

Here is another from 21 November 1984. You are one a night flight at> >
8500 feet with the family in the airplane and a magneto fails. You are>

Post by Alan Baker
125 miles from the destination and 200 miles from home. You still

have> > one good magneto, and the engine is running fine. What do you
do?

Make for the nearest available runway.

Here is another, 17 June 1994. You are going into a Chicago area> >
airport, deep inside the Class B airspace, and you lose radio contact>

Post by Alan Baker
with Chicago Approach 5 miles from the destination. What do you do?

Just like racing, it's a mental game, and you had always better have a>

Post by Alan Baker
viable Plan B.

No. It is NOTHING like racing.
You're picking moments when things went bad, but they are the>
exception. In racing, you need that concentration ALL THE TIME; when>
things are going right.

Single pilot IFR in IFR weather demands a similar level of engagement
to racing. In fact, it's rated as one of the most challenging tasks
there is.

Bullshit.

Post by Thomas E.
You MUST continuously pay attention to radio calls, one might be for
you, and they pop up randomly.

So you must listen.

Post by Thomas E.
You MUST continuously assess weather, fuel, aircraft instruments,
altitude, heading, and plan at least 5 minutes ahead.

Wow. 5 whole minutes. What is the separation you're supposed to maintain?

Post by Thomas E.
VFR is more relaxing, but there are no traffic cops or road signs up
there. You are on constant lookout for other aircraft.
Flying, done right, is as fully engaging as race car driving, with
similar consequences for errors. To do otherwise has killed quite a few
people.

Not even close.

Post by Thomas E.
Here is my response to the Memphis issue. At the moment I left off the
alternator failure had just happened, and I did not know all the
choices.
You are in Class B airspace and cannot turn off all radios or the
transponder. Second, the battery might last 15 minutes, it might not.
If it fails your goose is cooked. The basic risk is that battery life
is unknown. We need to eliminate the consequences as soon as possible.

Actually, you're wrong. You can turn off everything if it is an emergency.

Correct, but if you do that in Class B in IFR conditions you can't shoot an approach or count on separation.

Post by Alan Baker
Secondly, by regulation, the battery must last a minimum of half an
hour while running all "loads that are essential to continued safe
flight and landing".
FAR Part 23 Sec. 23.1353
That's assuming you're in an aircraft that isn't certified (I refuse to
use the non-word "certificated") for a maximum altitude above 25,000
feet.

Correct, but that's with a new battery. If your life depends on it, cut that in half.

Post by Alan Baker
Funny that a pilot wouldn't know that.

Not surprising that a non-pilot would know you should never trust the regs to save your life.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.
The best alternative might be to make a 180, head away from Memphis,
descend, and hope you break out and can find and airport. Not a bad
alternative, but not the best either. What are the bases in your area?
Are there radio towers out there? Are there other aircraft below the
clouds?
First, I called Memphis Approach and declared and emergency. Next
turned off the alternator side of the master switch. That removes the
possibility that something in that failed alternator circuit might
start a fire. That's why aircraft have split master switches.

Bully for you. Too bad you didn't know you were allowed to turn off the
transponder and the radios if necessary. And you DID know that leaving
one radio on only uses about 0.5 amps when simply receiving, right?

I know that, but there was a way to get out of this with a 100% chance of saving myself, the aircraft, and not getting anybody else hurt. It's a matter of basic decision making to go with an alternative the mitigates the risk as much as possible. Before criticize you need to learn a few things.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.
Then I asked approach for reports on cloud tops and bases. As it turned
out, the bases were about 500 agl, and tops about 2000 feet above me.
Given the bases, I started climb to VFR on top. Next, I asked for the
nearest available airport with weather good enough for a VFR decent. I
asked for a turn to get out of the Class B ASAP, and headed for that
airport. Now, if all radios fail I can get to VFR weather, descend, and
and find a place for a safe landing.
Exiting Class B I turned off the master switch. That kills all draw
from the battery. I happened to have a battery powered backup navcomm,
so I used that to navigate to the airport. I could have found an
airport without it, but I carry one for my Plan B.
I also did not mention that this was a Cessna RG. It uses a battery
powered pump to lower the gear. That pump pulls about 30 amps. Very bad
for the remaining battery life. Arriving at the new destination I
lowered the gear manually, turned off all but one radio, turned the
battery side of the master on, and announced my arrival. Once down
safely I taxied to the local FBO and had the mechanic look at the
problem.

Bravo for you!

Post by Thomas E.
The alternator bracket was broken at the engine block attach point. The
belt was shredded. It was an aluminum bracket, but the FBO had the
right welding gear. He got it put back together later that day.
Meanwhile I rented a car and drove to my Memphis meeting, arriving
about an hour late.
The point is to pay attention at all times, continuously assess the
risks, and be prepared to change the plan to eliminate risks from
in-flight systems failure. Do the right thing, if if it means you are
not going to be on time.

You didn't "pay attention" very well when the flight started, did you?

This illustrates just how little you know. There was no way to know that the bracket was going to break, even if I had pulled the cowling to inspect it. You cannot inspect the bracket unless you take the cowling off. Do you pull the differential cover on your car before every race? Do you pull the steering gear, disassemble, and inspect it?

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.
http://flash.aopa.org/asf/single_pilot_ifr/site/html/index/SPIFR.htm
http://flash.aopa.org/asf/decisionmaking/
I think you can take the courses even if you are not an AOPA member.
I suggest that before you talk about flying that you actually take the
time to learn something beyond a few VFR joyride experiences with
trained pilot doing most of the thinking for you.

You were talking about just such flying while telling us how much
better flying was than road racing.

Not true. I was taking about pilot in command flying, not as a passenger.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.
I'm guessing that you will come back with a reply that the effect that
you already know all you need to know, and don't need to learn anything
else, case closed.
PS - I have enough racing experience to be able to appreciate the
concentration it takes. It is intense, and on a level comparable to IFR
flying. And, it's more physical. Flying takes less brute strength, it's
more of a mind game.

It is far more concentration than IFR flying takes.

And you know that how?

Post by Alan Baker
Again, the idea in flying is to AVOID the situations that require
maximum focus at all times. In racing, you seek out those situations.

Post by Thomas E.
If you don't believe me yet, ask a pilot to take you up in the clouds
on an IFR flight plan. Ask him to let you try to fly in real world IFR
without any help, including radio calls or autopilot. I think you will
find "routine" IFR to be FULLY engaging. I am guessing that you will
not be able to do it.
:)

LOL

LOL. That's EXACTLY the response I expected. You will never know what you are talking about because you will never experience what it's like.

You will also never experience the sublime joy of a long flight well done, or the incredible things we experience from the front seat. I will never forget a rainbow out the windshield on an eastbound flight in Florida, or the fireworks at dusk on a long July 4 cross country leg, or flying over Cape Canaveral, or flying around in the mountains of Tennessee and North Carolina, not to mention more incredible sunsets than I can remember, or taking scores of kids on their first airplane flight, or flying through cloud "canyons" to avoid puffy summer cumulus, or a severe clear trip from Omaha to Indianapolis in a turbo 182 at FL19 - with a 120 knot tailwind, and skimming along a few feet above a solid undercast at 160 mph. And, so many more memories from 2500 hours in the left seat. Given the choice, I's rather be in that seat than anywhere else on earth.

I flew 5 hours yesterday, and weather permitting will get in 20 hours this next week. Woohoo! Life is good. It's about the journey, not the destination,

[Alan Baker]

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

You simply have no idea how much fun it is to hop in an airplane>>

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.
and>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> go>

wheeling> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> about in the> >>>>>>>>>>>> sky. I also

have> >>>>>>>>>> about 3>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> million>> >>>>>>

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

commercial air> >> miles.> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Those>

were OK, but> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> nowhere near>

Post by Thomas E.
the> >>>>>> pleasure> >>>> of DYI> >>>>>>>>>> aviation.

We have taken some very long trips. Pompano Beach, Houston, New>>
Orleans, Orlando,> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gulf Coast, Myrtle> >>>>>>>>>>>>
Beach,> >>>>>>>>>> Atlanta,> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Memphis,> >>>>>>
central>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >> Nebraska> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
(hunting), more. Any trip> >>>>>>>> in a small> >>>>>>>>>>>> plane>>

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.
is worth> >>>>>>>>>> taking.

Look at it this way, if it was not enjoyable why have I been at it>>>>

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

48>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>

years, and still> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> looking> >>>>>>>>>>>> forward to
every> >>>>>>>>>> trip to> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the airport?

IT'S "done flying".

Who has: HH?
<https://www.google.com/search?q=cessna+152&espv=2&biw=1491&bih=870&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=LCBvVZNS0MuiBOeqgcAK&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ>>>>>>>>>>
<https://www.google.com/search?q=cessna+152&espv=2&biw=1491&bih=870&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=LCBvVZNS0MuiBOeqgcAK&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ#tbm=isch&q=piper+cub+plane>>>>>>>>>>

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer
This is what IT

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=balsa+gliders+that+fly&view=detailv2&&&id=6C9F87BF3D1C16549A2B80E5C7A4BBD029991BD8&selectedIndex=2&ccid=iAuyB4Z3&simid=607987036916092082&thid=JN.2w%2fcmNLIOGFqCxPkXk5nwQ&ajaxhist=0>>>>>>>

Flown both of those. Did my private checkride in N2871S, a 1968
150.>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> I>> >>> > have a 30 hours
in various> >>>>>>>>>>> tailwheelers.
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=cessna%20150%20aerobat&qs=IM&form=QBIR&pq=cessna%20150%20&sc=8-11&sp=4&sk=IM3>>>>>>
https://www.google.com/search?&biw=1680&bih=869&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=citabria+7gcbc&oq=citabria&gs_l=img.3.2.0l10.204899.209837.0.213667.12.8.2.2.2.0.221.649.6j0j1.7.0....0...1c.1.64.img..2.10.595.Fvw3_JG8jCU&bav=on.2,or.&bvm=bv.94911696,d.b2w&dpr=1&ech=1&psi=1m5vVfDOFYfvsAX3-YCIAw.1433366230271.3&ei=rW9vVZ-LA4jYtQWS5YO4BA&emsg=NCSR&noj=1>>>>>>
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=gypsy+moth+airplane&FORM=HDRSC2
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=stearman&qpvt=stearman&qpvt=stearman&FORM=IGRE>>>>>>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steen_Skybolt
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=c206+on+floats&qpvt=c206+on+floats&qpvt=c206+on+floats&FORM=IGRE>>>>>>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker
I would have... ...but to

me it just> >>>>>>>>>>> wasn't a big> >>>>>>>>> deal.
And finally, this one that I got to ride in jump seat and right>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

seat>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> >> >>> from here to LHR

and back while> >>>>>>>>>>> I was working for> >>>>>>>>> a> >>>>>>>
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=gulfstream%20g4&qs=n&form=QBIR&pq=gulfstream%20g4&sc=8-13&sp=-1&sk>>>>>>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker
That was two boring

flights!

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panavia_Tornado>
If I can get over to England again soon, I'd like to see if being>>>

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.
the>>> >>>> >> grandson of the former 2IC of

the RAF> >>>>>>>>>> still gets> >>>>>>>> you> >>>>>> any> >>> >>>>
consideration.> My GF> >>>>>>>>>> already got a ride in a> >>>>>>>>
CF-18, so> >>>>>> I've got to> >>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>> catch up.
:-)

You know, flying is not for everybody. Some people just don't get>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.
it.>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> >>> I> > get to take 12-18 year old kids

on demo> >>>>>>>>> flights all the> >>>>>>> time> >>>>> (6> >>> coming>

Post by Alan Baker
up Saturday).> >>>>>>>>> Some are enthralled, some> >>>>>>> are

scared to> >>>>> death,> >>> and> >>>>>>>>> some> > just yawn.
Guess you would fall into the yawn category. I was enthralled, 48>>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.
years> > of enthralled. Every flight is

different,> >>>>>>>>> and to me> >>>>>>> about as>> >>>>> >>> much fun>

Post by Alan Baker
as the first one.> >>>>>>>>> It just never gets> >>>>>>> old. I had

a> >>>>> friend,> >>> recently>> >>>>>>>>> > deceased, who campaigned
a> >>>>>>> Vette on the SCCA> >>>>> circuit> >>>>>>>>> for 35> >>>
years. He> > was also a> >>>>>>> high time pilot, so it is>> >>>>>>>>>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

possible to enjoy> >>> both.

Oh, I know.
Competition.
A need to concentrate CONTINUOUSLY.

So what. That's your thing, not mine. Except when I'm skiing.

But you're the one who tried to make your thing comparable, Thomas.
Your thing is EASY 99% of the time. Even simple aerobatics aren't>

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker
hard>> >> provided you're not trying to execute them near

the ground.>> >>>>>> >>>> How is>> >> doing a loop more exciting than
riding a midway> >>>>>> attraction> >>>> that loops>> >> after you've
mastered the mechanics?
The whole POINT of road racing is to push the limits whereas the> >>>>>

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker
whole>> >> point of flying is to avoid them ("no old bold

pilots":> >>>>>> ever> >>>> heard>> >> it?). You seem to understand
this about skiing,> >>>>>> but you just> >>>> don't get>> >> it about
road racing.

I get it because I've raced go karts on twisty road courses and cars>>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.
and motorcycles on drag strips. I also get sitting back

and> >>>>> watching> >> >>> the world slide by under my wings. It's not
stressful.> >>>>> That whole> >> >>> point, dickhead.

Hey great...
But you presented it as BETTER than motor racing, Tommy-boy.
"Go play with your little ground-pounding toys while I fly over you>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.
and> thumb my nose."

Perhaps you recall that?
It's a fine pastime, Tommy. Just don't try and tell us how very> >>>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker
intense> it is. If it's intense: you've screwed up.

Furthermore, you grossly misunderstand the challenges that pilots
see.>> >>> > Here's one, and it's real life. It happened to me on 20
September,> >>> 1995.
You are 20 miles out from Memphis, in the clouds, daytime IFR, only>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Alan Baker
one> > in the airplane, and the alternator failure light comes on.

A> >>> quick> > glance at the ammeter confirms that it is not working.
You> >>> cycle the> > circuit breaker and the alternator side of the
master> >>> switch. The> > ammeter does not twitch, the alternator has
REALLY> >>> failed.
You have about 15 minutes of battery life with all the radios and> >>>
other> > equipment on you need for an instrument approach. It's about>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Alan Baker
15 minutes> > before Memphis Approach can get you to the runway on

that> >>> instrument> > approach. If the battery goes all the radios
you need to> >>> do the> > approach and talk to controllers will die.
There no closer> >>> airports> > with instrument approaches where you
could divert.
You life depends on what you do in the next 5 minutes. What is your decision?

That would depend on other things you've left unmentioned. Such as,
is>> >> it possible for you to get OUT of daytime IFR conditions. But
one> >> thing> I'd do is shut down absolutely everything non-essential,
and> >> even shut> down the radios between communications.
And then, I don't buy that you have only 15 minutes of battery life>>

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker
when your alternator goes if you turn off the non-essentials and

limit>> >> yourself to a single radio.

Post by Thomas E.
Here is another from 21 November 1984. You are one a night flight at>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker
8500 feet with the family in the airplane and a magneto fails.

You are>> >>> > 125 miles from the destination and 200 miles from home.
You still> >>> have> > one good magneto, and the engine is running
fine. What do you> >>> do?

Make for the nearest available runway.

Post by Thomas E.
Here is another, 17 June 1994. You are going into a Chicago area> >>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Alan Baker
airport, deep inside the Class B airspace, and you lose radio

contact>> >>> > with Chicago Approach 5 miles from the destination.
What do you do?
Just like racing, it's a mental game, and you had always better have
a>> >>> > viable Plan B.

No. It is NOTHING like racing.
You're picking moments when things went bad, but they are the>> >>
exception. In racing, you need that concentration ALL THE TIME; when>>

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker
things are going right.

Single pilot IFR in IFR weather demands a similar level of engagement>

Post by Alan Baker
to racing. In fact, it's rated as one of the most challenging tasks>
there is.

Bullshit.

You MUST continuously pay attention to radio calls, one might be for> >
you, and they pop up randomly.

So you must listen.

You MUST continuously assess weather, fuel, aircraft instruments,> >
altitude, heading, and plan at least 5 minutes ahead.

Wow. 5 whole minutes. What is the separation you're supposed to maintain?

VFR is more relaxing, but there are no traffic cops or road signs up> >
there. You are on constant lookout for other aircraft.
Flying, done right, is as fully engaging as race car driving, with> >
similar consequences for errors. To do otherwise has killed quite a
few> > people.

Not even close.

Here is my response to the Memphis issue. At the moment I left off the>

Post by Alan Baker
alternator failure had just happened, and I did not know all the> >

choices.
You are in Class B airspace and cannot turn off all radios or the> >
transponder. Second, the battery might last 15 minutes, it might not.>

Post by Alan Baker
If it fails your goose is cooked. The basic risk is that battery

life> > is unknown. We need to eliminate the consequences as soon as
possible.

Actually, you're wrong. You can turn off everything if it is an emergency.

Correct, but if you do that in Class B in IFR conditions you can't
shoot an approach or count on separation.

Post by Alan Baker
Secondly, by regulation, the battery must last a minimum of half an>
hour while running all "loads that are essential to continued safe>
flight and landing".
FAR Part 23 Sec. 23.1353
That's assuming you're in an aircraft that isn't certified (I refuse
to> use the non-word "certificated") for a maximum altitude above
25,000> feet.

Correct, but that's with a new battery. If your life depends on it, cut that in half.

Post by Alan Baker
Funny that a pilot wouldn't know that.

Not surprising that a non-pilot would know you should never trust the
regs to save your life.

Post by Alan Baker

The best alternative might be to make a 180, head away from Memphis,> >
descend, and hope you break out and can find and airport. Not a bad> >
alternative, but not the best either. What are the bases in your area?>

Post by Alan Baker
Are there radio towers out there? Are there other aircraft below the>
clouds?

First, I called Memphis Approach and declared and emergency. Next> >
turned off the alternator side of the master switch. That removes the>

Post by Alan Baker
possibility that something in that failed alternator circuit might> >

start a fire. That's why aircraft have split master switches.

Bully for you. Too bad you didn't know you were allowed to turn off
the> transponder and the radios if necessary. And you DID know that
leaving> one radio on only uses about 0.5 amps when simply receiving,
right?

I know that, but there was a way to get out of this with a 100% chance
of saving myself, the aircraft, and not getting anybody else hurt. It's
a matter of basic decision making to go with an alternative the
mitigates the risk as much as possible. Before criticize you need to
learn a few things.

Post by Alan Baker

Then I asked approach for reports on cloud tops and bases. As it
turned> > out, the bases were about 500 agl, and tops about 2000 feet
above me.> > Given the bases, I started climb to VFR on top. Next, I
asked for the> > nearest available airport with weather good enough for
a VFR decent. I> > asked for a turn to get out of the Class B ASAP, and
headed for that> > airport. Now, if all radios fail I can get to VFR
weather, descend, and> > and find a place for a safe landing.
Exiting Class B I turned off the master switch. That kills all draw> >
from the battery. I happened to have a battery powered backup navcomm,>

Post by Alan Baker
so I used that to navigate to the airport. I could have found an> >

airport without it, but I carry one for my Plan B.
I also did not mention that this was a Cessna RG. It uses a battery> >
powered pump to lower the gear. That pump pulls about 30 amps. Very
bad> > for the remaining battery life. Arriving at the new destination
I> > lowered the gear manually, turned off all but one radio, turned
the> > battery side of the master on, and announced my arrival. Once
down> > safely I taxied to the local FBO and had the mechanic look at
the> > problem.

Bravo for you!

The alternator bracket was broken at the engine block attach point.
The> > belt was shredded. It was an aluminum bracket, but the FBO had
the> > right welding gear. He got it put back together later that day.>

Post by Alan Baker
Meanwhile I rented a car and drove to my Memphis meeting, arriving> >

about an hour late.
The point is to pay attention at all times, continuously assess the> >
risks, and be prepared to change the plan to eliminate risks from> >
in-flight systems failure. Do the right thing, if if it means you are>

Post by Alan Baker
not going to be on time.

You didn't "pay attention" very well when the flight started, did you?

This illustrates just how little you know. There was no way to know
that the bracket was going to break, even if I had pulled the cowling
to inspect it. You cannot inspect the bracket unless you take the
cowling off. Do you pull the differential cover on your car before
every race? Do you pull the steering gear, disassemble, and inspect it?

Then you didn't stay on top of your maintenance, did you?

Do I pull the differential before EVERY race? No. Do I inspect the
magnetic drain plug for evidence of issues? Yup.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

http://flash.aopa.org/asf/single_pilot_ifr/site/html/index/SPIFR.htm
http://flash.aopa.org/asf/decisionmaking/
I think you can take the courses even if you are not an AOPA member.
I suggest that before you talk about flying that you actually take the>

Post by Alan Baker
time to learn something beyond a few VFR joyride experiences with> >

trained pilot doing most of the thinking for you.

You were talking about just such flying while telling us how much>
better flying was than road racing.

Not true. I was taking about pilot in command flying, not as a passenger.

Which I've done.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

I'm guessing that you will come back with a reply that the effect that>

Post by Alan Baker
you already know all you need to know, and don't need to learn

anything> > else, case closed.
PS - I have enough racing experience to be able to appreciate the> >
concentration it takes. It is intense, and on a level comparable to
IFR> > flying. And, it's more physical. Flying takes less brute
strength, it's> > more of a mind game.

It is far more concentration than IFR flying takes.

And you know that how?

Something that will utterly confound you: logic.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker
Again, the idea in flying is to AVOID the situations that require>
maximum focus at all times. In racing, you seek out those situations.

If you don't believe me yet, ask a pilot to take you up in the clouds>

Post by Alan Baker
on an IFR flight plan. Ask him to let you try to fly in real world

IFR> > without any help, including radio calls or autopilot. I think
you will> > find "routine" IFR to be FULLY engaging. I am guessing that
you will> > not be able to do it.
:)

LOL

LOL. That's EXACTLY the response I expected. You will never know what
you are talking about because you will never experience what it's like.

LOL

Post by Thomas E.
You will also never experience the sublime joy of a long flight well
done, or the incredible things we experience from the front seat. I
will never forget a rainbow out the windshield on an eastbound flight
in Florida, or the fireworks at dusk on a long July 4 cross country
leg, or flying over Cape Canaveral, or flying around in the mountains
of Tennessee and North Carolina, not to mention more incredible sunsets
than I can remember, or taking scores of kids on their first airplane
flight, or flying through cloud "canyons" to avoid puffy summer
cumulus, or a severe clear trip from Omaha to Indianapolis in a turbo
182 at FL19 - with a 120 knot tailwind, and skimming along a few feet
above a solid undercast at 160 mph. And, so many more memories from
2500 hours in the left seat. Given the choice, I's rather be in that
seat than anywhere else on earth.
I flew 5 hours yesterday, and weather permitting will get in 20 hours
this next week. Woohoo! Life is good. It's about the journey, not the
destination,

Bravo, Tommy, but this was about YOU running down racing and telling us
how much better and smarter being a pilot was than being a racing
driver.

You've just presented a bunch of things that work as validly as a
passenger, Tommy-boy: sightseeing.

"The "sublime joy of a long flight well done"? Seriously?

At FL19 what possible difference to the experience does a 120 knot
tailwind make?

Fact: flying done right AVOIDS the situations that required your
constant complete focus except for very brief periods of time.

[Thomas E.]

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

You simply have no idea how much fun it is to hop in an airplane>>

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.
and>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> go>

wheeling> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> about in the> >>>>>>>>>>>> sky. I also

have> >>>>>>>>>> about 3>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> million>> >>>>>>

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

commercial air> >> miles.> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Those>

were OK, but> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> nowhere near>

Post by Thomas E.
the> >>>>>> pleasure> >>>> of DYI> >>>>>>>>>> aviation.

We have taken some very long trips. Pompano Beach, Houston, New>>
Orleans, Orlando,> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gulf Coast, Myrtle> >>>>>>>>>>>>
Beach,> >>>>>>>>>> Atlanta,> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Memphis,> >>>>>>
central>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >> Nebraska> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
(hunting), more. Any trip> >>>>>>>> in a small> >>>>>>>>>>>> plane>>

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.
is worth> >>>>>>>>>> taking.

Look at it this way, if it was not enjoyable why have I been at it>>>>

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

48>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>

years, and still> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> looking> >>>>>>>>>>>> forward to
every> >>>>>>>>>> trip to> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the airport?

IT'S "done flying".

Who has: HH?
<https://www.google.com/search?q=cessna+152&espv=2&biw=1491&bih=870&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=LCBvVZNS0MuiBOeqgcAK&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ>>>>>>>>>>
<https://www.google.com/search?q=cessna+152&espv=2&biw=1491&bih=870&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=LCBvVZNS0MuiBOeqgcAK&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ#tbm=isch&q=piper+cub+plane>>>>>>>>>>

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer
This is what IT

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=balsa+gliders+that+fly&view=detailv2&&&id=6C9F87BF3D1C16549A2B80E5C7A4BBD029991BD8&selectedIndex=2&ccid=iAuyB4Z3&simid=607987036916092082&thid=JN.2w%2fcmNLIOGFqCxPkXk5nwQ&ajaxhist=0>>>>>>>

Flown both of those. Did my private checkride in N2871S, a 1968
150.>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> I>> >>> > have a 30 hours
in various> >>>>>>>>>>> tailwheelers.
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=cessna%20150%20aerobat&qs=IM&form=QBIR&pq=cessna%20150%20&sc=8-11&sp=4&sk=IM3>>>>>>
https://www.google.com/search?&biw=1680&bih=869&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=citabria+7gcbc&oq=citabria&gs_l=img.3.2.0l10.204899.209837.0.213667.12.8.2.2.2.0.221.649.6j0j1.7.0....0...1c.1.64.img..2.10.595.Fvw3_JG8jCU&bav=on.2,or.&bvm=bv.94911696,d.b2w&dpr=1&ech=1&psi=1m5vVfDOFYfvsAX3-YCIAw.1433366230271.3&ei=rW9vVZ-LA4jYtQWS5YO4BA&emsg=NCSR&noj=1>>>>>>
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=gypsy+moth+airplane&FORM=HDRSC2
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=stearman&qpvt=stearman&qpvt=stearman&FORM=IGRE>>>>>>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steen_Skybolt
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=c206+on+floats&qpvt=c206+on+floats&qpvt=c206+on+floats&FORM=IGRE>>>>>>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker
I would have... ...but to

me it just> >>>>>>>>>>> wasn't a big> >>>>>>>>> deal.
And finally, this one that I got to ride in jump seat and right>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

seat>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> >> >>> from here to LHR

and back while> >>>>>>>>>>> I was working for> >>>>>>>>> a> >>>>>>>
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=gulfstream%20g4&qs=n&form=QBIR&pq=gulfstream%20g4&sc=8-13&sp=-1&sk>>>>>>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker
That was two boring

flights!

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panavia_Tornado>
If I can get over to England again soon, I'd like to see if being>>>

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.
the>>> >>>> >> grandson of the former 2IC of

the RAF> >>>>>>>>>> still gets> >>>>>>>> you> >>>>>> any> >>> >>>>
consideration.> My GF> >>>>>>>>>> already got a ride in a> >>>>>>>>
CF-18, so> >>>>>> I've got to> >>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>> catch up.
:-)

You know, flying is not for everybody. Some people just don't get>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.
it.>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> >>> I> > get to take 12-18 year old kids

on demo> >>>>>>>>> flights all the> >>>>>>> time> >>>>> (6> >>> coming>

Post by Alan Baker
up Saturday).> >>>>>>>>> Some are enthralled, some> >>>>>>> are

scared to> >>>>> death,> >>> and> >>>>>>>>> some> > just yawn.
Guess you would fall into the yawn category. I was enthralled, 48>>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.
years> > of enthralled. Every flight is

different,> >>>>>>>>> and to me> >>>>>>> about as>> >>>>> >>> much fun>

Post by Alan Baker
as the first one.> >>>>>>>>> It just never gets> >>>>>>> old. I had

a> >>>>> friend,> >>> recently>> >>>>>>>>> > deceased, who campaigned
a> >>>>>>> Vette on the SCCA> >>>>> circuit> >>>>>>>>> for 35> >>>
years. He> > was also a> >>>>>>> high time pilot, so it is>> >>>>>>>>>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

possible to enjoy> >>> both.

Oh, I know.
Competition.
A need to concentrate CONTINUOUSLY.

So what. That's your thing, not mine. Except when I'm skiing.

But you're the one who tried to make your thing comparable, Thomas.
Your thing is EASY 99% of the time. Even simple aerobatics aren't>

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker
hard>> >> provided you're not trying to execute them near

the ground.>> >>>>>> >>>> How is>> >> doing a loop more exciting than
riding a midway> >>>>>> attraction> >>>> that loops>> >> after you've
mastered the mechanics?
The whole POINT of road racing is to push the limits whereas the> >>>>>

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker
whole>> >> point of flying is to avoid them ("no old bold

pilots":> >>>>>> ever> >>>> heard>> >> it?). You seem to understand
this about skiing,> >>>>>> but you just> >>>> don't get>> >> it about
road racing.

I get it because I've raced go karts on twisty road courses and cars>>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.
and motorcycles on drag strips. I also get sitting back

and> >>>>> watching> >> >>> the world slide by under my wings. It's not
stressful.> >>>>> That whole> >> >>> point, dickhead.

Hey great...
But you presented it as BETTER than motor racing, Tommy-boy.
"Go play with your little ground-pounding toys while I fly over you>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.
and> thumb my nose."

Perhaps you recall that?
It's a fine pastime, Tommy. Just don't try and tell us how very> >>>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker
intense> it is. If it's intense: you've screwed up.

Furthermore, you grossly misunderstand the challenges that pilots
see.>> >>> > Here's one, and it's real life. It happened to me on 20
September,> >>> 1995.
You are 20 miles out from Memphis, in the clouds, daytime IFR, only>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Alan Baker
one> > in the airplane, and the alternator failure light comes on.

A> >>> quick> > glance at the ammeter confirms that it is not working.
You> >>> cycle the> > circuit breaker and the alternator side of the
master> >>> switch. The> > ammeter does not twitch, the alternator has
REALLY> >>> failed.
You have about 15 minutes of battery life with all the radios and> >>>
other> > equipment on you need for an instrument approach. It's about>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Alan Baker
15 minutes> > before Memphis Approach can get you to the runway on

that> >>> instrument> > approach. If the battery goes all the radios
you need to> >>> do the> > approach and talk to controllers will die.
There no closer> >>> airports> > with instrument approaches where you
could divert.
You life depends on what you do in the next 5 minutes. What is your decision?

That would depend on other things you've left unmentioned. Such as,
is>> >> it possible for you to get OUT of daytime IFR conditions. But
one> >> thing> I'd do is shut down absolutely everything non-essential,
and> >> even shut> down the radios between communications.
And then, I don't buy that you have only 15 minutes of battery life>>

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker
when your alternator goes if you turn off the non-essentials and

limit>> >> yourself to a single radio.

Post by Thomas E.
Here is another from 21 November 1984. You are one a night flight at>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker
8500 feet with the family in the airplane and a magneto fails.

You are>> >>> > 125 miles from the destination and 200 miles from home.
You still> >>> have> > one good magneto, and the engine is running
fine. What do you> >>> do?

Make for the nearest available runway.

Post by Thomas E.
Here is another, 17 June 1994. You are going into a Chicago area> >>

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Alan Baker
airport, deep inside the Class B airspace, and you lose radio

contact>> >>> > with Chicago Approach 5 miles from the destination.
What do you do?
Just like racing, it's a mental game, and you had always better have
a>> >>> > viable Plan B.

No. It is NOTHING like racing.
You're picking moments when things went bad, but they are the>> >>
exception. In racing, you need that concentration ALL THE TIME; when>>

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker
things are going right.

Single pilot IFR in IFR weather demands a similar level of engagement>

Post by Alan Baker
to racing. In fact, it's rated as one of the most challenging tasks>
there is.

Bullshit.

You MUST continuously pay attention to radio calls, one might be for> >
you, and they pop up randomly.

So you must listen.

You MUST continuously assess weather, fuel, aircraft instruments,> >
altitude, heading, and plan at least 5 minutes ahead.

Wow. 5 whole minutes. What is the separation you're supposed to maintain?

VFR is more relaxing, but there are no traffic cops or road signs up> >
there. You are on constant lookout for other aircraft.
Flying, done right, is as fully engaging as race car driving, with> >
similar consequences for errors. To do otherwise has killed quite a
few> > people.

Not even close.

Here is my response to the Memphis issue. At the moment I left off the>

Post by Alan Baker
alternator failure had just happened, and I did not know all the> >

choices.
You are in Class B airspace and cannot turn off all radios or the> >
transponder. Second, the battery might last 15 minutes, it might not.>

Post by Alan Baker
If it fails your goose is cooked. The basic risk is that battery

life> > is unknown. We need to eliminate the consequences as soon as
possible.

Actually, you're wrong. You can turn off everything if it is an emergency.

Correct, but if you do that in Class B in IFR conditions you can't
shoot an approach or count on separation.

Post by Alan Baker
Secondly, by regulation, the battery must last a minimum of half an>
hour while running all "loads that are essential to continued safe>
flight and landing".
FAR Part 23 Sec. 23.1353
That's assuming you're in an aircraft that isn't certified (I refuse
to> use the non-word "certificated") for a maximum altitude above
25,000> feet.

Correct, but that's with a new battery. If your life depends on it, cut that in half.

Post by Alan Baker
Funny that a pilot wouldn't know that.

Not surprising that a non-pilot would know you should never trust the
regs to save your life.

Post by Alan Baker

The best alternative might be to make a 180, head away from Memphis,> >
descend, and hope you break out and can find and airport. Not a bad> >
alternative, but not the best either. What are the bases in your area?>

Post by Alan Baker
Are there radio towers out there? Are there other aircraft below the>
clouds?

First, I called Memphis Approach and declared and emergency. Next> >
turned off the alternator side of the master switch. That removes the>

Post by Alan Baker
possibility that something in that failed alternator circuit might> >

start a fire. That's why aircraft have split master switches.

Bully for you. Too bad you didn't know you were allowed to turn off
the> transponder and the radios if necessary. And you DID know that
leaving> one radio on only uses about 0.5 amps when simply receiving,
right?

I know that, but there was a way to get out of this with a 100% chance
of saving myself, the aircraft, and not getting anybody else hurt. It's
a matter of basic decision making to go with an alternative the
mitigates the risk as much as possible. Before criticize you need to
learn a few things.

Post by Alan Baker

Then I asked approach for reports on cloud tops and bases. As it
turned> > out, the bases were about 500 agl, and tops about 2000 feet
above me.> > Given the bases, I started climb to VFR on top. Next, I
asked for the> > nearest available airport with weather good enough for
a VFR decent. I> > asked for a turn to get out of the Class B ASAP, and
headed for that> > airport. Now, if all radios fail I can get to VFR
weather, descend, and> > and find a place for a safe landing.
Exiting Class B I turned off the master switch. That kills all draw> >
from the battery. I happened to have a battery powered backup navcomm,>

Post by Alan Baker
so I used that to navigate to the airport. I could have found an> >

airport without it, but I carry one for my Plan B.
I also did not mention that this was a Cessna RG. It uses a battery> >
powered pump to lower the gear. That pump pulls about 30 amps. Very
bad> > for the remaining battery life. Arriving at the new destination
I> > lowered the gear manually, turned off all but one radio, turned
the> > battery side of the master on, and announced my arrival. Once
down> > safely I taxied to the local FBO and had the mechanic look at
the> > problem.

Bravo for you!

The alternator bracket was broken at the engine block attach point.
The> > belt was shredded. It was an aluminum bracket, but the FBO had
the> > right welding gear. He got it put back together later that day.>

Post by Alan Baker
Meanwhile I rented a car and drove to my Memphis meeting, arriving> >

about an hour late.
The point is to pay attention at all times, continuously assess the> >
risks, and be prepared to change the plan to eliminate risks from> >
in-flight systems failure. Do the right thing, if if it means you are>

Post by Alan Baker
not going to be on time.

You didn't "pay attention" very well when the flight started, did you?

This illustrates just how little you know. There was no way to know
that the bracket was going to break, even if I had pulled the cowling
to inspect it. You cannot inspect the bracket unless you take the
cowling off. Do you pull the differential cover on your car before
every race? Do you pull the steering gear, disassemble, and inspect it?

Then you didn't stay on top of your maintenance, did you?
Do I pull the differential before EVERY race? No. Do I inspect the
magnetic drain plug for evidence of issues? Yup.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

http://flash.aopa.org/asf/single_pilot_ifr/site/html/index/SPIFR.htm
http://flash.aopa.org/asf/decisionmaking/
I think you can take the courses even if you are not an AOPA member.
I suggest that before you talk about flying that you actually take the>

Post by Alan Baker
time to learn something beyond a few VFR joyride experiences with> >

trained pilot doing most of the thinking for you.

You were talking about just such flying while telling us how much>
better flying was than road racing.

Not true. I was taking about pilot in command flying, not as a passenger.

Which I've done.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

I'm guessing that you will come back with a reply that the effect that>

Post by Alan Baker
you already know all you need to know, and don't need to learn

anything> > else, case closed.
PS - I have enough racing experience to be able to appreciate the> >
concentration it takes. It is intense, and on a level comparable to
IFR> > flying. And, it's more physical. Flying takes less brute
strength, it's> > more of a mind game.

It is far more concentration than IFR flying takes.

And you know that how?

Something that will utterly confound you: logic.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker
Again, the idea in flying is to AVOID the situations that require>
maximum focus at all times. In racing, you seek out those situations.

If you don't believe me yet, ask a pilot to take you up in the clouds>

Post by Alan Baker
on an IFR flight plan. Ask him to let you try to fly in real world

IFR> > without any help, including radio calls or autopilot. I think
you will> > find "routine" IFR to be FULLY engaging. I am guessing that
you will> > not be able to do it.
:)

LOL

LOL. That's EXACTLY the response I expected. You will never know what
you are talking about because you will never experience what it's like.

LOL

Post by Thomas E.
You will also never experience the sublime joy of a long flight well
done, or the incredible things we experience from the front seat. I
will never forget a rainbow out the windshield on an eastbound flight
in Florida, or the fireworks at dusk on a long July 4 cross country
leg, or flying over Cape Canaveral, or flying around in the mountains
of Tennessee and North Carolina, not to mention more incredible sunsets
than I can remember, or taking scores of kids on their first airplane
flight, or flying through cloud "canyons" to avoid puffy summer
cumulus, or a severe clear trip from Omaha to Indianapolis in a turbo
182 at FL19 - with a 120 knot tailwind, and skimming along a few feet
above a solid undercast at 160 mph. And, so many more memories from
2500 hours in the left seat. Given the choice, I's rather be in that
seat than anywhere else on earth.
I flew 5 hours yesterday, and weather permitting will get in 20 hours
this next week. Woohoo! Life is good. It's about the journey, not the
destination,

Bravo, Tommy, but this was about YOU running down racing and telling us
how much better and smarter being a pilot was than being a racing
driver.

Not true, I admitted that I see the joy of racing. Been there, done that too.

Post by Alan Baker
You've just presented a bunch of things that work as validly as a
passenger, Tommy-boy: sightseeing.
"The "sublime joy of a long flight well done"? Seriously?

Seriously. You have not clue because you have never been there.

Post by Alan Baker
At FL19 what possible difference to the experience does a 120 knot
tailwind make?

It's the different between 170 knots true airspeed and 290 knots ground speed. That's quite a difference.

Post by Alan Baker
Fact: flying done right AVOIDS the situations that required your
constant complete focus except for very brief periods of time.

That is not true. Your attitude has been the mantra of a lot of former, dead by airplane accident, pilots and their passengers. The accident records are full of fatalities that resulted from complacency that led to a chain of fatal events. A recent one was the Korean Air crash at SFO.

You statement is also contradictory. Flying done right DEMANDS constant attention to details and immersive situational awareness. You can't focus on one thing, like the Korean Air pilots did. You have to take in the entire situation as it unfolds and make good decisions. Like seeing your airspeed decay on landing approach and manually advancing the throttles, not waiting for the autopilot auto-throttles to handle it.

Come back when you get a license with instrument rating, a few years of flying experience as pilot in command, and have a clue.

End of discussion.

[Alan Baker]

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Alan Baker

The alternator bracket was broken at the engine block attach point.>

The> > belt was shredded. It was an aluminum bracket, but the FBO

had> >>> the> > right welding gear. He got it put back together later
that day.>> >>> > Meanwhile I rented a car and drove to my Memphis
meeting, arriving> >> >>> about an hour late.
The point is to pay attention at all times, continuously assess the> >>

risks, and be prepared to change the plan to eliminate risks from>

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.
in-flight systems failure. Do the right thing, if if it means

you are>> >>> > not going to be on time.

You didn't "pay attention" very well when the flight started, did you?

This illustrates just how little you know. There was no way to know> >
that the bracket was going to break, even if I had pulled the cowling>

Post by Alan Baker
to inspect it. You cannot inspect the bracket unless you take the> >

cowling off. Do you pull the differential cover on your car before> >
every race? Do you pull the steering gear, disassemble, and inspect it?

Then you didn't stay on top of your maintenance, did you?
Do I pull the differential before EVERY race? No. Do I inspect the>
magnetic drain plug for evidence of issues? Yup.

Avoidance noted.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Alan Baker

http://flash.aopa.org/asf/single_pilot_ifr/site/html/index/SPIFR.htm
http://flash.aopa.org/asf/decisionmaking/
I think you can take the courses even if you are not an AOPA member.
I suggest that before you talk about flying that you actually take
the>> >>> > time to learn something beyond a few VFR joyride
experiences with> >> >>> trained pilot doing most of the thinking for
you.

You were talking about just such flying while telling us how much>> >>
better flying was than road racing.

Not true. I was taking about pilot in command flying, not as a passenger.

Which I've done.

Avoidance noted.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Alan Baker

I'm guessing that you will come back with a reply that the effect
that>> >>> > you already know all you need to know, and don't need to
learn> >>> anything> > else, case closed.
PS - I have enough racing experience to be able to appreciate the> >>

concentration it takes. It is intense, and on a level comparable

to> >>> IFR> > flying. And, it's more physical. Flying takes less
brute> >>> strength, it's> > more of a mind game.

It is far more concentration than IFR flying takes.

And you know that how?

Something that will utterly confound you: logic.

Avoidance noted.

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Alan Baker
Again, the idea in flying is to AVOID the situations that require>> >>
maximum focus at all times. In racing, you seek out those situations.

If you don't believe me yet, ask a pilot to take you up in the clouds>>

Post by Thomas E.
on an IFR flight plan. Ask him to let you try to fly in real

world> >>> IFR> > without any help, including radio calls or autopilot.
I think> >>> you will> > find "routine" IFR to be FULLY engaging. I am
guessing that> >>> you will> > not be able to do it.
:)

LOL

LOL. That's EXACTLY the response I expected. You will never know what>

Post by Alan Baker
you are talking about because you will never experience what it's

like.

LOL

You will also never experience the sublime joy of a long flight well> >
done, or the incredible things we experience from the front seat. I> >
will never forget a rainbow out the windshield on an eastbound flight>

Post by Alan Baker
in Florida, or the fireworks at dusk on a long July 4 cross country>
leg, or flying over Cape Canaveral, or flying around in the

mountains> > of Tennessee and North Carolina, not to mention more
incredible sunsets> > than I can remember, or taking scores of kids on
their first airplane> > flight, or flying through cloud "canyons" to
avoid puffy summer> > cumulus, or a severe clear trip from Omaha to
Indianapolis in a turbo> > 182 at FL19 - with a 120 knot tailwind, and
skimming along a few feet> > above a solid undercast at 160 mph. And,
so many more memories from> > 2500 hours in the left seat. Given the
choice, I's rather be in that> > seat than anywhere else on earth.
I flew 5 hours yesterday, and weather permitting will get in 20 hours>

Post by Alan Baker
this next week. Woohoo! Life is good. It's about the journey, not

the> > destination,

Bravo, Tommy, but this was about YOU running down racing and telling
us> how much better and smarter being a pilot was than being a racing>
driver.

Not true, I admitted that I see the joy of racing. Been there, done that too.

Riiiiight. What did this consist of, again: a "NASCAR" stock car? LOLOOOLOLOLOL

That's why you called it "ground pounding" and you were "thumbing
[your] nose" at those of us who do it....

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker
You've just presented a bunch of things that work as validly as a>
passenger, Tommy-boy: sightseeing.
"The "sublime joy of a long flight well done"? Seriously?

Seriously. You have not clue because you have never been there.

What makes this "sublime joy", Tom?

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker
At FL19 what possible difference to the experience does a 120 knot>
tailwind make?

It's the different between 170 knots true airspeed and 290 knots ground
speed. That's quite a difference.

How is it different TO THE EXPERIENCE

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker
Fact: flying done right AVOIDS the situations that required your>
constant complete focus except for very brief periods of time.

That is not true. Your attitude has been the mantra of a lot of former,
dead by airplane accident, pilots and their passengers. The accident
records are full of fatalities that resulted from complacency that led
to a chain of fatal events. A recent one was the Korean Air crash at
SFO.

Nope. Not true at all.

Post by Thomas E.
You statement is also contradictory. Flying done right DEMANDS constant
attention to details and immersive situational awareness. You can't
focus on one thing, like the Korean Air pilots did. You have to take in
the entire situation as it unfolds and make good decisions. Like seeing
your airspeed decay on landing approach and manually advancing the
throttles, not waiting for the autopilot auto-throttles to handle it.
Come back when you get a license with instrument rating, a few years of
flying experience as pilot in command, and have a clue.
End of discussion.

Run away, Tommy-boy!

[ed]

You both are awesome. Yea for you guys. Can you let out drop now? Jeebus, I've never seen two old man involved in such a go of my hobby is better than yours... :-P

[Alan Baker]

Post by ed
You both are awesome. Yea for you guys. Can you let out drop now?
Jeebus, I've never seen two old man involved in such a go of my hobby
is better than yours... :-P

I hate to say it, Ed...

...but he started it.

I think flying is fine. It's just no match for the intense
concentration that is road racing.

And I think you'd agree.

[ed]

I think people can be relatively relaxed road racing, but if they want to perform at your best, they need intense concentration. Similarly, but differently (ha), I think flying can generally be more relaxing (although you're taking acrobatics too lightly, as was hh with air racing), but the consequences of being too relaxed are generally worse than in low level club racing. I.e. YMMV.

[-hh]

Post by ed
I think people can be relatively relaxed road racing, but if they want to perform
at your best, they need intense concentration. Similarly, but differently (ha), I
think flying can generally be more relaxing (although you're taking acrobatics
too lightly, as was hh with air racing), but the consequences of being too relaxed
are generally worse than in low level club racing. I.e. YMMV.

(I said something regarding air racing??). Overall, they're quite different endeavors,
and my thoughts on it come from a now-retired 747 pilot and an "enthusiast" chat
we had some years ago regarding maunal vs automatic transmissions (in cars).
In essence, he was disposionally disinterested in having "better engagement"
through lesser automation and described his job as hours of boredom interspersed
with seconds of terror (latter to be minimized). What I find interesting about this is
that this was from before he retired and he's now taken up competitive sailplane
flying, and a sailplane is much more "connected" to flight than a 747, so I'd like
to hear his thoughts on the same question again today.

-hh

[ed]

Post by -hh

Post by ed
I think people can be relatively relaxed road racing, but if they want to perform
at your best, they need intense concentration. Similarly, but differently (ha), I
think flying can generally be more relaxing (although you're taking acrobatics
too lightly, as was hh with air racing), but the consequences of being too relaxed
are generally worse than in low level club racing. I.e. YMMV.

(I said something regarding air racing??).

Sorry, confused you with Carroll. :-P

Post by -hh
Overall, they're quite different endeavors,
and my thoughts on it come from a now-retired 747 pilot and an "enthusiast" chat
we had some years ago regarding maunal vs automatic transmissions (in cars).
In essence, he was disposionally disinterested in having "better engagement"
through lesser automation and described his job as hours of boredom interspersed
with seconds of terror (latter to be minimized).

Much less automation in a ga compared to a jumbo. ;)

Post by -hh
What I find interesting about this is
that this was from before he retired and he's now taken up competitive sailplane
flying, and a sailplane is much more "connected" to flight than a 747, so I'd like
to hear his thoughts on the same question again today.

I work in aero and have a disproportionate number of coworkers who fly, including acrobatics, air racers and glider pilots (a world champion included (and coworkers who have helped design a couple world champ air racers)), and many home built / home designed aircraft. Disproportionate amount of people who race cars too. So watching this whole conversation has bean very amusing. ;)

(I've done a very small amount of flying and have much more time on tracks. Imo, they both have their moments, require concentration to stay safe, you can easily get complacent in both as you build up time, and in the end, neither were that interesting for me. :-P)

[Alan Baker]

Post by ed

Post by -hh

Post by ed
I think people can be relatively relaxed road racing, but if they want
to perform> > at your best, they need intense concentration.
Similarly, but differently (ha), I> > think flying can generally be
more relaxing (although you're taking acrobatics> > too lightly, as was
hh with air racing), but the consequences of being too relaxed> > are
generally worse than in low level club racing. I.e. YMMV.>> (I said
something regarding air racing??).

Sorry, confused you with Carroll. :-P

Post by -hh
Overall, they're quite different endeavors,
and my thoughts on it come from a now-retired 747 pilot and an
"enthusiast" chat> we had some years ago regarding maunal vs automatic
transmissions (in cars).
In essence, he was disposionally disinterested in having "better
engagement"> through lesser automation and described his job as hours
of boredom interspersed> with seconds of terror (latter to be
minimized).

Much less automation in a ga compared to a jumbo. ;)

These days? Not a whole lot less as far as the piloting task is concerned.

Post by ed

Post by -hh
What I find interesting about this is
that this was from before he retired and he's now taken up competitive sailplane
flying, and a sailplane is much more "connected" to flight than a 747,
so I'd like> to hear his thoughts on the same question again today.

I work in aero and have a disproportionate number of coworkers who fly,
including acrobatics, air racers and glider pilots (a world champion
included (and coworkers who have helped design a couple world champ air
racers)), and many home built / home designed aircraft.
Disproportionate amount of people who race cars too. So watching this
whole conversation has bean very amusing. ;)
(I've done a very small amount of flying and have much more time on
tracks. Imo, they both have their moments, require concentration to
stay safe, you can easily get complacent in both as you build up time,
and in the end, neither were that interesting for me. :-P)

By comparison, flying requires moments of attention and focus on a
regular basis, whereas racing allows for occasional moments where you
aren't intensely focussing.

[Nashton]

Why do you bother with this pinhead?

[Alan Baker]

Post by Nashton
Why do you bother with this pinhead?

LOL!

His overwhelming need to PROVE how much better his life is than that of others?

So... ...pretty much exactly like you.

:-)

[Thomas E.]

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Nashton
Why do you bother with this pinhead?

LOL!
His overwhelming need to PROVE how much better his life is than that of others?
So... ...pretty much exactly like you.
:-)

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!

[Alan Baker]

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Nashton
Why do you bother with this pinhead?

LOL!
His overwhelming need to PROVE how much better his life is than that of others?
So... ...pretty much exactly like you.
:-)

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!

LOL

This from the man who keeps trying to insist how much better his hobby is...

[Thomas E.]

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.

Post by -hh

Post by Thomas E.
Ha. My addiction is airplanes. Been flying them for 48+ years. I am now
in a place
where I can fly 3-5 hours on just about any day I want to.

And just what do you have within ~500 miles worth flying to?

Post by Thomas E.
I also just passed an instrument proficiency check with flying colors, and

have a medical with no restrictions.
So did JFK Jr....

Post by Thomas E.
I absolutely love flying, and have nothing to be jealous about. Go play with
your little ground-pounding toys while I fly over you and thumb my nose.

While others fly over you, doing 550mph and actually getting somewhere
1000+ miles away in 3-5 hours.
FWIW, had a coworker who seemed to love flying and had bought another
bird...he offered me his Cessna at a very reasonable price, whcih is why I
looked at this question of "just what would I want to use it for?". Turns out
that flying around for a few hours wasn't it, even if the view was pretty.
-hh

You simply have no idea how much fun it is to hop in an airplane and go
wheeling about in the sky. I also have about 3 million commercial air
miles. Those were OK, but nowhere near the pleasure of DYI aviation.
We have taken some very long trips. Pompano Beach, Houston, New
Orleans, Orlando, Gulf Coast, Myrtle Beach, Atlanta, Memphis, central
Nebraska (hunting), more. Any trip in a small plane is worth taking.
Look at it this way, if it was not enjoyable why have I been at it 48
years, and still looking forward to every trip to the airport?

IT'S "done flying".

Who has: HH?
<https://www.google.com/search?q=cessna+152&espv=2&biw=1491&bih=870&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=LCBvVZNS0MuiBOeqgcAK&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ>
<https://www.google.com/search?q=cessna+152&espv=2&biw=1491&bih=870&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=LCBvVZNS0MuiBOeqgcAK&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ#tbm=isch&q=piper+cub+plane>

Post by Walter Myer
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=balsa+gliders+that+fly&view=detailv2&&&id=6C9F87BF3D1C16549A2B80E5C7A4BBD029991BD8&selectedIndex=2&ccid=iAuyB4Z3&simid=607987036916092082&thid=JN.2w%2fcmNLIOGFqCxPkXk5nwQ&ajaxhist=0

More - N2871S is still around, pictures taken just last year at Griffith in northern Indiana:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxuJGTDTmSZ1QUFGcVVFaHFFdlE/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxuJGTDTmSZ1LVVWZUVoNmxyWDA/view?usp=sharing

She was in for a 100 hour inspection or I would have taken her up for a circuit around the pattern.

[Alan Baker]

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.

Post by -hh

Post by Thomas E.
Ha. My addiction is airplanes. Been flying them for 48+ years. I am now
in a place
where I can fly 3-5 hours on just about any day I want to.

And just what do you have within ~500 miles worth flying to?

Post by Thomas E.
I also just passed an instrument proficiency check with flying colors, and

have a medical with no restrictions.
So did JFK Jr....

Post by Thomas E.
I absolutely love flying, and have nothing to be jealous about. Go play with
your little ground-pounding toys while I fly over you and thumb my nose.

While others fly over you, doing 550mph and actually getting somewhere
1000+ miles away in 3-5 hours.
FWIW, had a coworker who seemed to love flying and had bought another
bird...he offered me his Cessna at a very reasonable price, whcih is why I
looked at this question of "just what would I want to use it for?". Turns out
that flying around for a few hours wasn't it, even if the view was pretty.
-hh

You simply have no idea how much fun it is to hop in an airplane and go
wheeling about in the sky. I also have about 3 million commercial air
miles. Those were OK, but nowhere near the pleasure of DYI aviation.
We have taken some very long trips. Pompano Beach, Houston, New
Orleans, Orlando, Gulf Coast, Myrtle Beach, Atlanta, Memphis, central
Nebraska (hunting), more. Any trip in a small plane is worth taking.
Look at it this way, if it was not enjoyable why have I been at it 48
years, and still looking forward to every trip to the airport?

IT'S "done flying".

Who has: HH?
<https://www.google.com/search?q=cessna+152&espv=2&biw=1491&bih=870&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=LCBvVZNS0MuiBOeqgcAK&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ>
<https://www.google.com/search?q=cessna+152&espv=2&biw=1491&bih=870&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=LCBvVZNS0MuiBOeqgcAK&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ#tbm=isch&q=piper+cub+plane>

Post by Walter Myer
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=balsa+gliders+that+fly&view=detailv2&&&id=6C9F87BF3D1C16549A2B80E5C7A4BBD029991BD8&selectedIndex=2&ccid=iAuyB4Z3&simid=607987036916092082&thid=JN.2w%2fcmNLIOGFqCxPkXk5nwQ&ajaxhist=0

More - N2871S is still around, pictures taken just last year at
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxuJGTDTmSZ1QUFGcVVFaHFFdlE/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxuJGTDTmSZ1LVVWZUVoNmxyWDA/view?usp=sharing
She was in for a 100 hour inspection or I would have taken her up for a
circuit around the pattern.

Bully for N2871S!

[Thomas E.]

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.

Post by -hh

Post by Thomas E.
Ha. My addiction is airplanes. Been flying them for 48+ years. I am now
in a place
where I can fly 3-5 hours on just about any day I want to.

And just what do you have within ~500 miles worth flying to?

Post by Thomas E.
I also just passed an instrument proficiency check with flying colors, and

have a medical with no restrictions.
So did JFK Jr....

Post by Thomas E.
I absolutely love flying, and have nothing to be jealous about. Go play with
your little ground-pounding toys while I fly over you and thumb my nose.

While others fly over you, doing 550mph and actually getting somewhere
1000+ miles away in 3-5 hours.
FWIW, had a coworker who seemed to love flying and had bought another
bird...he offered me his Cessna at a very reasonable price, whcih is why I
looked at this question of "just what would I want to use it for?". Turns out
that flying around for a few hours wasn't it, even if the view was pretty.
-hh

You simply have no idea how much fun it is to hop in an airplane and go
wheeling about in the sky. I also have about 3 million commercial air
miles. Those were OK, but nowhere near the pleasure of DYI aviation.
We have taken some very long trips. Pompano Beach, Houston, New
Orleans, Orlando, Gulf Coast, Myrtle Beach, Atlanta, Memphis, central
Nebraska (hunting), more. Any trip in a small plane is worth taking.
Look at it this way, if it was not enjoyable why have I been at it 48
years, and still looking forward to every trip to the airport?

IT'S "done flying".

Who has: HH?
<https://www.google.com/search?q=cessna+152&espv=2&biw=1491&bih=870&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=LCBvVZNS0MuiBOeqgcAK&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ>
<https://www.google.com/search?q=cessna+152&espv=2&biw=1491&bih=870&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=LCBvVZNS0MuiBOeqgcAK&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ#tbm=isch&q=piper+cub+plane>

Post by Walter Myer
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=balsa+gliders+that+fly&view=detailv2&&&id=6C9F87BF3D1C16549A2B80E5C7A4BBD029991BD8&selectedIndex=2&ccid=iAuyB4Z3&simid=607987036916092082&thid=JN.2w%2fcmNLIOGFqCxPkXk5nwQ&ajaxhist=0

More - N2871S is still around, pictures taken just last year at
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxuJGTDTmSZ1QUFGcVVFaHFFdlE/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxuJGTDTmSZ1LVVWZUVoNmxyWDA/view?usp=sharing
She was in for a 100 hour inspection or I would have taken her up for a
circuit around the pattern.

Bully for N2871S!

Amen, she will be 50 years old next year. BTW, that paint job on her is factory original! She has been hangered her entire life. It was a thrill to sit in that pilot's seat again after not seeing her since 1969. The memories I have in my 75 hours in her, including 2 long cross country flights of over 300 miles, are priceless!

[Alan Baker]

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.

Post by -hh

Post by Thomas E.
Ha. My addiction is airplanes. Been flying them for 48+ years. I am now
in a place
where I can fly 3-5 hours on just about any day I want to.

And just what do you have within ~500 miles worth flying to?

Post by Thomas E.
I also just passed an instrument proficiency check with flying colors, and

have a medical with no restrictions.
So did JFK Jr....

Post by Thomas E.
I absolutely love flying, and have nothing to be jealous about. Go play with
your little ground-pounding toys while I fly over you and thumb my nose.

While others fly over you, doing 550mph and actually getting somewhere
1000+ miles away in 3-5 hours.
FWIW, had a coworker who seemed to love flying and had bought another
bird...he offered me his Cessna at a very reasonable price, whcih is why I
looked at this question of "just what would I want to use it for?". Turns out
that flying around for a few hours wasn't it, even if the view was pretty.
-hh

You simply have no idea how much fun it is to hop in an airplane and go
wheeling about in the sky. I also have about 3 million commercial air
miles. Those were OK, but nowhere near the pleasure of DYI aviation.
We have taken some very long trips. Pompano Beach, Houston, New
Orleans, Orlando, Gulf Coast, Myrtle Beach, Atlanta, Memphis, central
Nebraska (hunting), more. Any trip in a small plane is worth taking.
Look at it this way, if it was not enjoyable why have I been at it 48
years, and still looking forward to every trip to the airport?

IT'S "done flying".

Who has: HH?
<https://www.google.com/search?q=cessna+152&espv=2&biw=1491&bih=870&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=LCBvVZNS0MuiBOeqgcAK&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ>>
<https://www.google.com/search?q=cessna+152&espv=2&biw=1491&bih=870&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=LCBvVZNS0MuiBOeqgcAK&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ#tbm=isch&q=piper+cub+plane>>

Post by Walter Myer
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=balsa+gliders+that+fly&view=detailv2&&&id=6C9F87BF3D1C16549A2B80E5C7A4BBD029991BD8&selectedIndex=2&ccid=iAuyB4Z3&simid=607987036916092082&thid=JN.2w%2fcmNLIOGFqCxPkXk5nwQ&ajaxhist=0>

Post by Thomas E.

Post by -hh

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.
More - N2871S is still around, pictures taken just last

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxuJGTDTmSZ1QUFGcVVFaHFFdlE/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxuJGTDTmSZ1LVVWZUVoNmxyWDA/view?usp=sharing
She was in for a 100 hour inspection or I would have taken her up for
a> > circuit around the pattern.

Bully for N2871S!

Amen, she will be 50 years old next year. BTW, that paint job on her is
factory original! She has been hangered her entire life. It was a
thrill to sit in that pilot's seat again after not seeing her since
1969. The memories I have in my 75 hours in her, including 2 long cross
country flights of over 300 miles, are priceless!

A year or so ago, I was doing a little family history research and
discovered that the little low wing monoplane that was built in 1938
and owned by my uncle (also RAF) in the late 1950s is still airworthy.
This one:

<http://www.chilton-aircraft.co.uk/gafgi.htm>

[Thomas E.]

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.

Post by -hh

Post by Thomas E.
Ha. My addiction is airplanes. Been flying them for 48+ years. I am now
in a place
where I can fly 3-5 hours on just about any day I want to.

And just what do you have within ~500 miles worth flying to?

Post by Thomas E.
I also just passed an instrument proficiency check with flying colors, and

have a medical with no restrictions.
So did JFK Jr....

Post by Thomas E.
I absolutely love flying, and have nothing to be jealous about. Go play with
your little ground-pounding toys while I fly over you and thumb my nose.

While others fly over you, doing 550mph and actually getting somewhere
1000+ miles away in 3-5 hours.
FWIW, had a coworker who seemed to love flying and had bought another
bird...he offered me his Cessna at a very reasonable price, whcih is why I
looked at this question of "just what would I want to use it for?". Turns out
that flying around for a few hours wasn't it, even if the view was pretty.
-hh

You simply have no idea how much fun it is to hop in an airplane and go
wheeling about in the sky. I also have about 3 million commercial air
miles. Those were OK, but nowhere near the pleasure of DYI aviation.
We have taken some very long trips. Pompano Beach, Houston, New
Orleans, Orlando, Gulf Coast, Myrtle Beach, Atlanta, Memphis, central
Nebraska (hunting), more. Any trip in a small plane is worth taking.
Look at it this way, if it was not enjoyable why have I been at it 48
years, and still looking forward to every trip to the airport?

IT'S "done flying".

Who has: HH?
<https://www.google.com/search?q=cessna+152&espv=2&biw=1491&bih=870&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=LCBvVZNS0MuiBOeqgcAK&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ>>
<https://www.google.com/search?q=cessna+152&espv=2&biw=1491&bih=870&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=LCBvVZNS0MuiBOeqgcAK&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ#tbm=isch&q=piper+cub+plane>>

Post by Walter Myer
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=balsa+gliders+that+fly&view=detailv2&&&id=6C9F87BF3D1C16549A2B80E5C7A4BBD029991BD8&selectedIndex=2&ccid=iAuyB4Z3&simid=607987036916092082&thid=JN.2w%2fcmNLIOGFqCxPkXk5nwQ&ajaxhist=0>

Post by Thomas E.

Post by -hh

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.
More - N2871S is still around, pictures taken just last

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxuJGTDTmSZ1QUFGcVVFaHFFdlE/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxuJGTDTmSZ1LVVWZUVoNmxyWDA/view?usp=sharing
She was in for a 100 hour inspection or I would have taken her up for
a> > circuit around the pattern.

Bully for N2871S!

Amen, she will be 50 years old next year. BTW, that paint job on her is
factory original! She has been hangered her entire life. It was a
thrill to sit in that pilot's seat again after not seeing her since
1969. The memories I have in my 75 hours in her, including 2 long cross
country flights of over 300 miles, are priceless!

A year or so ago, I was doing a little family history research and
discovered that the little low wing monoplane that was built in 1938
and owned by my uncle (also RAF) in the late 1950s is still airworthy.
<http://www.chilton-aircraft.co.uk/gafgi.htm>

Cool little airplane, with only 214 hours on it as of 2011.

If you knew anything about airplanes and flying you could have gone straight away to the UK CAA registry and looked it up.

http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=60&pagetype=65&appid=1&mode=detailnosummary&fullregmark=AFGI

It's CAA flying status permit expired in 2013. Likely more a museum piece or sitting in a dusty hanger somewhere now.

[Alan Baker]

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.

Post by -hh

Post by Thomas E.
Ha. My addiction is airplanes. Been flying them for 48+ years. I am now
in a place
where I can fly 3-5 hours on just about any day I want to.

And just what do you have within ~500 miles worth flying to?

Post by Thomas E.
I also just passed an instrument proficiency check with flying colors, and

have a medical with no restrictions.
So did JFK Jr....

Post by Thomas E.
I absolutely love flying, and have nothing to be jealous about. Go play with
your little ground-pounding toys while I fly over you and thumb my nose.

While others fly over you, doing 550mph and actually getting somewhere
1000+ miles away in 3-5 hours.
FWIW, had a coworker who seemed to love flying and had bought another
bird...he offered me his Cessna at a very reasonable price, whcih is why I
looked at this question of "just what would I want to use it for?". Turns out
that flying around for a few hours wasn't it, even if the view was pretty.
-hh

You simply have no idea how much fun it is to hop in an airplane and go
wheeling about in the sky. I also have about 3 million commercial air
miles. Those were OK, but nowhere near the pleasure of DYI aviation.
We have taken some very long trips. Pompano Beach, Houston, New
Orleans, Orlando, Gulf Coast, Myrtle Beach, Atlanta, Memphis, central
Nebraska (hunting), more. Any trip in a small plane is worth taking.
Look at it this way, if it was not enjoyable why have I been at it 48
years, and still looking forward to every trip to the airport?

IT'S "done flying".

Who has: HH?
<https://www.google.com/search?q=cessna+152&espv=2&biw=1491&bih=870&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=LCBvVZNS0MuiBOeqgcAK&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ>>
<https://www.google.com/search?q=cessna+152&espv=2&biw=1491&bih=870&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=LCBvVZNS0MuiBOeqgcAK&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ#tbm=isch&q=piper+cub+plane>>

Post by Walter Myer
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=balsa+gliders+that+fly&view=detailv2&&&id=6C9F87BF3D1C16549A2B80E5C7A4BBD029991BD8&selectedIndex=2&ccid=iAuyB4Z3&simid=607987036916092082&thid=JN.2w%2fcmNLIOGFqCxPkXk5nwQ&ajaxhist=0>

Post by Thomas E.

Post by -hh

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Thomas E.
More - N2871S is still around, pictures taken just last

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxuJGTDTmSZ1QUFGcVVFaHFFdlE/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxuJGTDTmSZ1LVVWZUVoNmxyWDA/view?usp=sharing
She was in for a 100 hour inspection or I would have taken her up for
a> > circuit around the pattern.

Bully for N2871S!

Amen, she will be 50 years old next year. BTW, that paint job on her is
factory original! She has been hangered her entire life. It was a
thrill to sit in that pilot's seat again after not seeing her since
1969. The memories I have in my 75 hours in her, including 2 long cross
country flights of over 300 miles, are priceless!

A year or so ago, I was doing a little family history research and
discovered that the little low wing monoplane that was built in 1938
and owned by my uncle (also RAF) in the late 1950s is still airworthy.
<http://www.chilton-aircraft.co.uk/gafgi.htm>

Cool little airplane, with only 214 hours on it as of 2011.

Correction: with only 214 hours on it on a website. You have no clue
whether or not the reflects all hours in a system that has changed
multiple times since the aircraft in question was built in 1938.

Post by Thomas E.
If you knew anything about airplanes and flying you could have gone
straight away to the UK CAA registry and looked it up.
http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=60&pagetype=65&appid=1&mode=detailnosummary&fullregmark=AFGI

No. Knowing about the existence of that website has absolutely no
correlation to knowing about airplanes and flying.

Post by Thomas E.
It's CAA flying status permit expired in 2013. Likely more a museum
piece or sitting in a dusty hanger somewhere now.

Riiiiiiight.

1. That would be roughly 2 years ago, so in 2 years it went from
airworthy to museum piece.

2. I didn't reckon with how being older messes with one's sense of the
passage of time. My email to my uncle was in 2009. At the time, the
Chilton was owned and flown by a British Airways pilot out of White
Waltham Airfield about an hour from the centre of London.

<http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/HistoricalMaterial/G-AFGI-2.pdf>

[Alan Baker]

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker
A year or so ago, I was doing a little family history research and
discovered that the little low wing monoplane that was built in 1938
and owned by my uncle (also RAF) in the late 1950s is still airworthy.
<http://www.chilton-aircraft.co.uk/gafgi.htm>

Cool little airplane, with only 214 hours on it as of 2011.
If you knew anything about airplanes and flying you could have gone straight away to the UK CAA registry and looked it up.
http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=60&pagetype=65&appid=1&mode=detailnosummary&fullregmark=AFGI
It's CAA flying status permit expired in 2013. Likely more a museum piece or sitting in a dusty hanger somewhere now.

This is just irresistible:

I was looking to see the origins of the Little Shit's denigration of road racing (and to show how he's now wanting to drag the goalposts to something I've never denied)...

...and I found this denigrating comment about my uncle Giles' old aircraft (registration G-AFGI).

'Likely more a museum piece or sitting in a dusty hanger somewhere now.'

And because of the passage of time, the URL for caa.co.uk that he provided no longer works, and the new URL doesn't include the search term, but using their new search page at:

<https://www.caa.co.uk/aircraft-register/g-info/search-g-info/>

I found this:

'Mark: G-AFGI
Current reg. date: 02-Sep-2021
Total hours: 236 at 14-Sep-2022
Permit Validity Expiry: 13-Sep-2023'

So it seems that once again the prognostications of the Little Shit were less than useful.

:-)

[-hh]

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker
A year or so ago, I was doing a little family history research and
discovered that the little low wing monoplane that was built in 1938
and owned by my uncle (also RAF) in the late 1950s is still airworthy.
<http://www.chilton-aircraft.co.uk/gafgi.htm>

Cool little airplane, with only 214 hours on it as of 2011.
If you knew anything about airplanes and flying you could have gone straight away to the UK CAA registry and looked it up.
http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=60&pagetype=65&appid=1&mode=detailnosummary&fullregmark=AFGI
It's CAA flying status permit expired in 2013. Likely more a museum piece or sitting in a dusty hanger somewhere now.

I was looking to see the origins of the Little Shit's denigration of road racing (and to show how he's now wanting to drag the goalposts to something I've never denied)...
...and I found this denigrating comment about my uncle Giles' old aircraft (registration G-AFGI).
'Likely more a museum piece or sitting in a dusty hanger somewhere now.'
<https://www.caa.co.uk/aircraft-register/g-info/search-g-info/>
'Mark: G-AFGI
Current reg. date: 02-Sep-2021
Total hours: 236 at 14-Sep-2022
Permit Validity Expiry: 13-Sep-2023'
So it seems that once again the prognostications of the Little Shit were less than useful.
:-)

214 to 236 hours from 2011 to 2022 means 22 hours in 11 years = 2 hours/year.
That’s a garage queen.

-hh

[Alan]

Post by -hh

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker
A year or so ago, I was doing a little family history research and
discovered that the little low wing monoplane that was built in 1938
and owned by my uncle (also RAF) in the late 1950s is still airworthy.
<http://www.chilton-aircraft.co.uk/gafgi.htm>

Cool little airplane, with only 214 hours on it as of 2011.
If you knew anything about airplanes and flying you could have gone straight away to the UK CAA registry and looked it up.
http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=60&pagetype=65&appid=1&mode=detailnosummary&fullregmark=AFGI
It's CAA flying status permit expired in 2013. Likely more a museum piece or sitting in a dusty hanger somewhere now.

I was looking to see the origins of the Little Shit's denigration of road racing (and to show how he's now wanting to drag the goalposts to something I've never denied)...
...and I found this denigrating comment about my uncle Giles' old aircraft (registration G-AFGI).
'Likely more a museum piece or sitting in a dusty hanger somewhere now.'
<https://www.caa.co.uk/aircraft-register/g-info/search-g-info/>
'Mark: G-AFGI
Current reg. date: 02-Sep-2021
Total hours: 236 at 14-Sep-2022
Permit Validity Expiry: 13-Sep-2023'
So it seems that once again the prognostications of the Little Shit were less than useful.
:-)

214 to 236 hours from 2011 to 2022 means 22 hours in 11 years = 2 hours/year.
That’s a garage queen.

Meh... ...the point is it isn't in a museum or just sitting.

And a follow up:

It's now in Germany! Apparently owned by a flying club (and translated
from German):

"In July 2021 the G-AFGI was bought by three club members and brought to
Germany in August and is now part of the collection."

<https://www.flieger-stadl.de/de/flotte/chilton-dw-1/>

As a photographer, I'm sure you'll really appreciate the beautiful pics
they've got...

...including those taken of it flying in 2021.

:-)

[John]

Post by -hh

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker
A year or so ago, I was doing a little family history research and
discovered that the little low wing monoplane that was built in 1938
and owned by my uncle (also RAF) in the late 1950s is still airworthy.
<http://www.chilton-aircraft.co.uk/gafgi.htm>

Cool little airplane, with only 214 hours on it as of 2011.
If you knew anything about airplanes and flying you could have gone straight away to the UK CAA registry and looked it up.
http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=60&pagetype=65&appid=1&mode=detailnosummary&fullregmark=AFGI
It's CAA flying status permit expired in 2013. Likely more a museum piece or sitting in a dusty hanger somewhere now.

I was looking to see the origins of the Little Shit's denigration of road racing (and to show how he's now wanting to drag the goalposts to something I've never denied)...
...and I found this denigrating comment about my uncle Giles' old aircraft (registration G-AFGI).
'Likely more a museum piece or sitting in a dusty hanger somewhere now.'
<https://www.caa.co.uk/aircraft-register/g-info/search-g-info/>
'Mark: G-AFGI
Current reg. date: 02-Sep-2021
Total hours: 236 at 14-Sep-2022
Permit Validity Expiry: 13-Sep-2023'
So it seems that once again the prognostications of the Little Shit were less than useful.
:-)

214 to 236 hours from 2011 to 2022 means 22 hours in 11 years = 2 hours/year.
That’s a garage queen.
-hh

ROTFLMAO!

[Thomas E.]

Post by -hh

Post by Thomas E.
Ha. My addiction is airplanes. Been flying them for 48+ years. I am now in a place
where I can fly 3-5 hours on just about any day I want to.

And just what do you have within ~500 miles worth flying to?

Post by Thomas E.
I also just passed an instrument proficiency check with flying colors, and

have a medical with no restrictions.
So did JFK Jr....

JFK Jr had no instrument ticket. We was a low time private pilot with little or no experience in low visibility conditions or night flying. He got in over his head and killed himself and 2 others. He even had a perfectly good Piper autopilot, but had not been taught how to use it. That alone would have saved the situation.

[Alan Baker]

Post by Thomas E.

Post by -hh

Post by Thomas E.
Ha. My addiction is airplanes. Been flying them for 48+ years. I am now
in a place> > where I can fly 3-5 hours on just about any day I want to.

And just what do you have within ~500 miles worth flying to?

Post by Thomas E.
I also just passed an instrument proficiency check with flying colors,
and> have a medical with no restrictions.>> So did JFK Jr....

JFK Jr had no instrument ticket. We was a low time private pilot with
little or no experience in low visibility conditions or night flying.
He got in over his head and killed himself and 2 others. He even had a
perfectly good Piper autopilot, but had not been taught how to use it.
That alone would have saved the situation.

Whatttttt!?!!?

Not constant focus every moment?

An "autopilot"?

LOL

[Walter Myer]

Post by Thomas E.

Post by -hh

Post by Thomas E.
Ha. My addiction is airplanes. Been flying them for 48+ years. I am now in a place
where I can fly 3-5 hours on just about any day I want to.

And just what do you have within ~500 miles worth flying to?

Post by Thomas E.
I also just passed an instrument proficiency check with flying colors, and

have a medical with no restrictions.
So did JFK Jr....

JFK Jr had no instrument ticket. We was a low time private pilot with little or no experience in low visibility conditions or night flying. He got in over his head and killed himself and 2 others. He even had a perfectly good Piper autopilot, but had not been taught how to use it. That alone would have saved the situation.

Why are you even bothering with that asshole? IT will say anything for attention.

IT'S a know nothing little shit without a life.

The dumb fuck is a real life Walter Mitty.

[Alan Baker]

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.

Post by -hh

Post by Thomas E.
Ha. My addiction is airplanes. Been flying them for 48+ years. I am now
in a place> > > where I can fly 3-5 hours on just about any day I want
to.

And just what do you have within ~500 miles worth flying to?

Post by Thomas E.
I also just passed an instrument proficiency check with flying colors,
and> > have a medical with no restrictions.> >> > So did JFK Jr....

JFK Jr had no instrument ticket. We was a low time private pilot with
little or no experience in low visibility conditions or night flying.
He got in over his head and killed himself and 2 others. He even had a
perfectly good Piper autopilot, but had not been taught how to use it.
That alone would have saved the situation.

Why are you even bothering with that asshole? IT will say anything for attention.
IT'S a know nothing little shit without a life.
The dumb fuck is a real life Walter Mitty.

LOL

Says the guy who scrambles from group to group begging for me to reply...


:-)

[Thomas E.]

Post by -hh

Post by Thomas E.
Ha. My addiction is airplanes. Been flying them for 48+ years. I am now in a place
where I can fly 3-5 hours on just about any day I want to.

And just what do you have within ~500 miles worth flying to?

Post by Thomas E.
I also just passed an instrument proficiency check with flying colors, and

have a medical with no restrictions.
So did JFK Jr....

Post by Thomas E.
I absolutely love flying, and have nothing to be jealous about. Go play with
your little ground-pounding toys while I fly over you and thumb my nose.

While others fly over you, doing 550mph and actually getting somewhere
1000+ miles away in 3-5 hours.
FWIW, had a coworker who seemed to love flying and had bought another
bird...he offered me his Cessna at a very reasonable price, whcih is why I
looked at this question of "just what would I want to use it for?". Turns out
that flying around for a few hours wasn't it, even if the view was pretty.
-hh

Places to go within 500 nm? The mountains of TN and NC, the beaches of SC, the Great Lakes, Wisconsin Dells, family visits in KY, GA and TN, lots more

[Walter Myer]

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker
I know a great many of you trolls and fanboys seem to take quite an
interest in who's racing and who is not and how we might be doing.
I just thought you'd like the update that the first race weekend of the
year was terrific. There may be others whose cars are supposedly
"bwoke", but mine is running great. I'm running the full tail bodywork
this year, having solved the issue of how to mount the exhaust with it
in place (the previous owner didn't use the two rear bodywork pieces
because he was running autocross where the aerodynamic advantage would
be close to nil you see) and I can tell it's making a difference down
the straights; that and my new engine. Between the two of them, I may
just have to install a slightly taller 4th gear.
One third, one second and one fourth place for the weekend. I'm still a
little slower than the top two guys, but I'll get there. :-)
I'll post links to YouTube as soon as I've d'loaded the video from my
GoPro cameras (front and rear this year).

Narcissist

Masochistic Narcissist.

[Alan Baker]

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker
I know a great many of you trolls and fanboys seem to take quite an
interest in who's racing and who is not and how we might be doing.
I just thought you'd like the update that the first race weekend of the
year was terrific. There may be others whose cars are supposedly
"bwoke", but mine is running great. I'm running the full tail bodywork
this year, having solved the issue of how to mount the exhaust with it
in place (the previous owner didn't use the two rear bodywork pieces
because he was running autocross where the aerodynamic advantage would
be close to nil you see) and I can tell it's making a difference down
the straights; that and my new engine. Between the two of them, I may
just have to install a slightly taller 4th gear.
One third, one second and one fourth place for the weekend. I'm still a
little slower than the top two guys, but I'll get there. :-)
I'll post links to YouTube as soon as I've d'loaded the video from my
GoPro cameras (front and rear this year).

Narcissist

Masochistic Narcissist.

LOL!

Fish on!

[Walter Myer]

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker
I know a great many of you trolls and fanboys seem to take quite an
interest in who's racing and who is not and how we might be doing.
I just thought you'd like the update that the first race weekend of the
year was terrific. There may be others whose cars are supposedly
"bwoke", but mine is running great. I'm running the full tail bodywork
this year, having solved the issue of how to mount the exhaust with it
in place (the previous owner didn't use the two rear bodywork pieces
because he was running autocross where the aerodynamic advantage would
be close to nil you see) and I can tell it's making a difference down
the straights; that and my new engine. Between the two of them, I may
just have to install a slightly taller 4th gear.
One third, one second and one fourth place for the weekend. I'm still a
little slower than the top two guys, but I'll get there. :-)
I'll post links to YouTube as soon as I've d'loaded the video from my
GoPro cameras (front and rear this year).

Narcissist

WOW!! IT has posted 13 times on this thread alone. The clear "winner". So we can add 13 more to IT'S liftime posting record of over 102,000

What a sad, little shit.

[Walter Myer]

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker
I know a great many of you trolls and fanboys seem to take quite an
interest in who's racing and who is not and how we might be doing.
I just thought you'd like the update that the first race weekend of the
year was terrific. There may be others whose cars are supposedly
"bwoke", but mine is running great. I'm running the full tail bodywork
this year, having solved the issue of how to mount the exhaust with it
in place (the previous owner didn't use the two rear bodywork pieces
because he was running autocross where the aerodynamic advantage would
be close to nil you see) and I can tell it's making a difference down
the straights; that and my new engine. Between the two of them, I may
just have to install a slightly taller 4th gear.
One third, one second and one fourth place for the weekend. I'm still a
little slower than the top two guys, but I'll get there. :-)
I'll post links to YouTube as soon as I've d'loaded the video from my
GoPro cameras (front and rear this year).

Narcissist

A wace car driber, and.... an airpwane pilot. So many non talents.

[Alan Baker]

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker
I know a great many of you trolls and fanboys seem to take quite an
interest in who's racing and who is not and how we might be doing.
I just thought you'd like the update that the first race weekend of the
year was terrific. There may be others whose cars are supposedly
"bwoke", but mine is running great. I'm running the full tail bodywork
this year, having solved the issue of how to mount the exhaust with it
in place (the previous owner didn't use the two rear bodywork pieces
because he was running autocross where the aerodynamic advantage would
be close to nil you see) and I can tell it's making a difference down
the straights; that and my new engine. Between the two of them, I may
just have to install a slightly taller 4th gear.
One third, one second and one fourth place for the weekend. I'm still a
little slower than the top two guys, but I'll get there. :-)
I'll post links to YouTube as soon as I've d'loaded the video from my
GoPro cameras (front and rear this year).

Narcissist

A wace car driber, and.... an airpwane pilot. So many non talents.

I do drive a race car. I hold an license with an FIA-sanctioned racing body.

I'm not an airplane pilot. I've just got about 3 hours flight time with
two take-offs and one landing.

:-)

[Thomas E.]

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker
I know a great many of you trolls and fanboys seem to take quite an
interest in who's racing and who is not and how we might be doing.
I just thought you'd like the update that the first race weekend of the
year was terrific. There may be others whose cars are supposedly
"bwoke", but mine is running great. I'm running the full tail bodywork
this year, having solved the issue of how to mount the exhaust with it
in place (the previous owner didn't use the two rear bodywork pieces
because he was running autocross where the aerodynamic advantage would
be close to nil you see) and I can tell it's making a difference down
the straights; that and my new engine. Between the two of them, I may
just have to install a slightly taller 4th gear.
One third, one second and one fourth place for the weekend. I'm still a
little slower than the top two guys, but I'll get there. :-)
I'll post links to YouTube as soon as I've d'loaded the video from my
GoPro cameras (front and rear this year).

Narcissist

A wace car driber, and.... an airpwane pilot. So many non talents.

I do drive a race car. I hold an license with an FIA-sanctioned racing body.
I'm not an airplane pilot. I've just got about 3 hours flight time with
two take-offs and one landing.
:-)

You are a SLOW learner!

[Alan Baker]

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker

Post by Walter Myer

Post by Thomas E.

Post by Alan Baker
I know a great many of you trolls and fanboys seem to take quite an
interest in who's racing and who is not and how we might be doing.
I just thought you'd like the update that the first race weekend of the
year was terrific. There may be others whose cars are supposedly
"bwoke", but mine is running great. I'm running the full tail bodywork
this year, having solved the issue of how to mount the exhaust with it
in place (the previous owner didn't use the two rear bodywork pieces
because he was running autocross where the aerodynamic advantage would
be close to nil you see) and I can tell it's making a difference down
the straights; that and my new engine. Between the two of them, I may
just have to install a slightly taller 4th gear.
One third, one second and one fourth place for the weekend. I'm still a
little slower than the top two guys, but I'll get there. :-)
I'll post links to YouTube as soon as I've d'loaded the video from my
GoPro cameras (front and rear this year).

Narcissist

A wace car driber, and.... an airpwane pilot. So many non talents.

I do drive a race car. I hold an license with an FIA-sanctioned racing body.
I'm not an airplane pilot. I've just got about 3 hours flight time with
two take-offs and one landing.
:-)

You are a SLOW learner!

Really?

You had a minimum of three full hours instruction plus however long
into your fourth flight before your first landing, Tommy-boy. I had a
maximum of 2 hours less the time you want to subtract for the landing
itself. If I'm a slow learner, what does that make you?

LOL

[John]

Post by Alan Baker
I know a great many of you trolls and fanboys seem to take quite an
interest in who's racing and who is not and how we might be doing.
I just thought you'd like the update that the first race weekend of the
year was terrific. There may be others whose cars are supposedly
"bwoke", but mine is running great. I'm running the full tail bodywork
this year, having solved the issue of how to mount the exhaust with it
in place (the previous owner didn't use the two rear bodywork pieces
because he was running autocross where the aerodynamic advantage would
be close to nil you see) and I can tell it's making a difference down
the straights; that and my new engine. Between the two of them, I may
just have to install a slightly taller 4th gear.
One third, one second and one fourth place for the weekend. I'm still a
little slower than the top two guys, but I'll get there. :-)
I'll post links to YouTube as soon as I've d'loaded the video from my
GoPro cameras (front and rear this year).

ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!